Save all ladies from Howie Nave. Set the record straight ladies.
My Howie Experience Ladies... this blog is created to help us women out, set the record straight by sharing our stories.I thought I was dating Howie some time ago, and yet it wasn't too long before I realized I wasn't the only one he was dating...He was "hot" and then icy cold.... very cold...the "hot" part was good and then I was talking to friends and figured the "special stories" Howie and I shared for which he said I was the first and only person he got that way with... was probably not true.I'm hoping this blog sets the record straight because here it is for me, many months later and i'm still stinging from the unbelievably difficult and painful experience...Ladies?? share your experiences. did you date Howie? When, how long, did you e-mail a lot? Did he ask you "unusual" things to write about?Did he suddenly drop out of the picture and give you some lame excuse like he's busy? Did you figure out he is not a truthful person. Did you ever get to date in-person (I flew out to see him) and did you find out he is very different in person??painful? share...
how many are there. i am another one
this is incredible. i don't believe i found this and i feel embarrassed and really stupid that I thought he actually cared about me. i thought it was just me he did this to and reading this makes me feel sick to my stomach. i feel so used. my experience was close to the anonymous user's here. I especially hated the I am busy excuse. Who is that busy. And I can't believe he told me I was the only one he had ever told these sick fantasies too. What a way to use and manipulate someone. Pure evil really. Something has to be seriously mentally wrong with him. I thought he was just messed up from past relationships, but finding this makes me realize it is much more serious. He'll make a joke about all of this and say stalkers did it to him, but he did it to himself. If he really is doing this to bunches of women, then he deserves people writing about him on the net. I feel sorry for him really, but he needs to stop hurting people like this. He was horrible to me. Really horrible. I have never had a man treat me so badly actually and I new him for quite a long time. My family called it abusive.Really reading all this makes me sick and brings it all up for me again. I almost wish I never had found this site.
oh for god's sake, my friend called me and told me about this site because she knew what hell i have been through with howie. I feel like i am reading my own life that someone else wrote, but actually there are "many" of others who have had the same experiecnes? i am just as sick about it as one of the posters on here. He used to email each other for hours and hours and told me the same thing that i was the only one. he did have some sick fantasies but it was kind of fun too though i thought. then i started seeing all the lies. I agree with the poster who wrote hemusdt have mental problems he really does ! i actually got ber hurt by him becuase he liked me then didnt then did then didn't he'd email then stop then start and stop and i must have known he was lying. it wasprobably just when he was in-between someone else. i feel bad for all of us really. someone wrote "there are others" who, how do you know. i found out a few months he has a girlfriend who lives in tahoe. i wonder if she knows someone should tell her anyone know her? damn, he was a lot of hurt for me, in some ways, its better knowing it really wasn't me afterall. i've told other men i've dated since howie about him and they all think he's sick
here is another bloghttp://howienave.blogstream.com/v1/pid/191947.html
this guy is a real shit. i live in tahoe and also know him. just call him a playah. I liked the attention he gave me. tahoe is a small kind of town and ive been through a lot so his attention felt nice. he would stop by my house and take pix of me in tight pants , he liked that a lot, and then i found out he was lying about everything, i mean really everything, from weekends to radio show. ive thought back and realized he probably didnt say a word of truth. he even had the balls to refer to me like a stalker or something. but i've got the emails to prove i'm not a stalker he was the one pursuing me. kept pulling me back in. turned out he didnt even want anyone to know about me. i think he goes after women who are needy and i guess i was. he's the real shit a total user of women. and i don't like saying that i too wasn't able to get past a little disappointing kiss now and again. my family and i hvae talked alot anout him and we're pretty sure he's a closet gay and afraid to deal with it. seems hes hurt a lot of people and no wonder he can't keep a steady woman.
I cannot believe this blog! I only saw the other one a few weeks ago and this one is even worse.Reading all of this also make me feel sick for so many reasons.I used to feel sorry for him but anyone who knowingly hurts people or animals doesn't even deserve any nice feeling. He is a user, plain and simple. He is a user and it is all about him.I was involved with him for a few years, probably the same time period as everyone else which is even sicker, yes, during that time i was also told i was the only one among many other things. It seemed like he really wanted a relationship but just was not able to do it. He was not able to do anything sexually either or not much.he has some kind of serious mental disorder because only a man with a serious mental disorder would actually treat other people like this or animals for that matter. come on! it is much more than being a closet gay although that is a possibility. Most gay men don't have fantasies of heavy women sitting on their face or wearing high heeled pumps and sitting on mice and other animals. Do they? No. Not my gay friends. I have told my gay friends about him and they think he is a fruitcake. And a dangerous one. Any human who gets off on the actual killing of life has a very serious and chilling psychiatric disorder. I said to him once how can you get off on killing a live animal and he said cats and mice are roadkill anyhow and it depends on what you really call an animal. Creepy? I won't get into the darker fantasies of his which were also shared with me and are worse than these by the way.i don't think the guy can have a real girlfriend.And not only that even if he gets these fantasies, they don't do it for him. So what does that say?
i talked to howie and he told me his "stalker" is writing is writing all of this...hard to believe one person could write all this....he is telling everyone his stalker from back east coast is writing these thingsi dont believe it because i have heard too many stories about him in tahoe and not good onesluckily i never got to know him much. he is too old for me. he tried though i am 27 and live in tahoe and a friend of mine (age 21!) made out with him because he told her she was beautiful and they worked together sort of and no one had ever told her that before in her life so it was appealing. but the rat thing freaked her out but for some reason she stuck around but also never got anywhere beyond some fumbled bad kisses.
i met howie through match.com and i am thinkin of sending them this blog as a complaint. what do y'all think? i shouldnt have to meet creeps like this online. life is hard enough. i am a single mom and just wanted to meet a nice normal man. . i had no idea about him at first until later onhe probly thinks this is all funny . none of us should feel sorry for him or anything nice. cant believe i let him type me all that sick crap; i have every message written so i could send them to match.com i have thought of sending them everywhere-the paper, the places he work, . creepmaybe i will, maybe every one of us should it might be the only way to stop him. what do y'all think?
i do not and won't feel sorry for him either he hurt me too much when he would write and then just drop off the face of the earth and then write again months later as if nothing happend, he didn't care at all about how he hurt me. but, i do feel kind of bad saying how sick he was for writing everything when I wrote him back and said similar things. But, i did it because I thought it was just us two just letting our mind go wild. but, after a couple of years off and on hot and cold and how mean he was to me i figured out his talking about all the psychco shit was just his way of using me. he never cared about me. But, with everyone writing on this site that the same thing happened to them, he really was using all of us. he pretends to be very different. since everyone writing here says they weren't able to get beyond kissing he must have a serious problem which why he uses the internet to get girls to talk to him. Sending a complaint to Match.com could be a good idea if he still does that and send him a message.
someone wrote they "talked to howie" about this site and what is posted on it? what all did he say?
i agree with the person about telling matchcom or papers or wherever. his name on match.com is comicalbear go see his bullcrap therehow can anyone feel sorry for someone who treats us like this. we all should ask why we put up with him. what is wrong with us, me included although i got out quick after i heard about my young friends experience. he is not a good man. i mean he did this to my very young friend who was impressed and thought he was a star or something. hes no star. he sucks. she is only 21 years old. do you think that is right? she lives right here in tahoe and worked with him and i think still does. he dragged her thru the same mud for 2 years on and off, telling her she was beautiful. she had never even been with a man before or kissed someone before. the kiss made her sick too and she had to go seek mental help from his on and off actions. her mental health counselor told her these fantasies of his are sick and a sign of real mental illness and she should run the other way. but at 20 with no father figure, she hung on to him and he used that to get his jollies. that is sick, maybe she was even 19 or 20 when it started. and he told her he liked chunky girls to sit on rats. that is sick to tell that to a young gal like thathe just likes to shock girls i think to see how far he can go with them and then you stick it out and then he dumps you and goes to the next one. it is the worst kind of usinggo ahead all tell all to whomever will listen....he is a public person here and it is sickwho is going to stop it if not us
i've been reading all these postings and have not yet said anything, but here goes. I "dated" howie for awhile and yes i too thought i was the only one. I did the online fantasy email chats with him too, but he then startled me with asking about sitting on things. i went along with it to see where it would go and i was surprised to feel excited about the danger aspect we did it off and on for a long time and then we started seeing each other at least i thought we were but he then surprised me again when we never did anything normal, i mean nothing really. kissed a little but it was fumbled at best . he wanted to take a lot of pictures of me in those shiny pants shiny shoes. I started realizing that he must have some serious hang ups, big ones because he really was not too interested in anything but shiny pants on rear ends. i did also feel sorry for him for along time. obviously something happened to him. I too had to start seeing a counselor because he his lying kept breaking me down. i knew he even used me in my job to help him with some stuff here in town cuz i knew some people. he told me stories , or lies, about past girlfiends and made it seem like they were all crazy, but by then i was feeling crazy too. my counselor said he was a very abusive person, he emotionally manipulates people to try and solve his own problems. she also helped me see that his need for everyone to think he was a star or something special was his way trying to fix whatever his mother didn't do for him. and have you heard his mother on the radio with Him? when she is in town she goes on the air with him and makes him sound completely childish. howie really messed me up for awhile. it took a long time for me to deal with it. out of the blue he started emailing me again recently and i googled him and came upon this site. i guess hes once again needing attention and trying to get me to fall into his crap again. after reading all these postings , sounds like a lot of us went through the same thing. that makes it all so much worse because it means he literally was writing us at the same time. hurting many people at the same time too. if he really did know about this site i bet he'd stop, maybe that's what we should do. i read someone wrote he has girlfriend now? I kind of doubt that too. now that i know the extent of his problems, i'll see what I can find out in town and who ever said they talked to howie and told him about this, i don't think he must have read these. because he emailed me out of the blue recently and i could tell he wanted to start writing about all those sick things again. thanks for this site gals because maybe without it i would have got sucked back into it. i also agree with contacting match.com maybe that will get his attention. he really needs help.
to the last person.it is good u posted. i also said i would not post but here is my first..i will tell you that i do not think seeing these posts would make him stop. he would just find another sick and sneaky way to do to get this stuff for his sick needsand I will tell all of you that he does know about this blog and the posts and has read them. and he blames all this on others, not himself, and tells people he has a new stalker writing all this. never mind when i met him, he told me he had two other stalkers in tahoe (another red flag i ignored)i am yet another one. this is my first writing here. yes i was told i was the only one and it was very intense for a long time. and yes we still email. i never thought he was a player so this shocks me to be honest. he is so awful in the sack, how could he be a player is what i always thought. we never once could really do it. i thought the star stuff was all a big act to cover up .i felt sorry for him which i cant believe.and momma? well he and and momma are far too close. she idolizes him. in person, and i have spent time with him and mama, she does not put him down. she praises him to hi heaven and adores and idolizes him. he loves mama he says, mama is everythingmaybe someone should send this to momma and she'd get him to commit himself somewhere, but even that wouldnt help i dont think and it wont happeni don't think anything will make him stop. he does not care.he doesn't think anything is wrong with him.i think it actually makes him feel even more special that he had this affect on all these gals, and he can show people..look at me, i am a playboy, a heartbreaker and all these ladies want me!! have you ever seen all his photos of him with different ladies.....? honest.this is his reaction, not embarrassment or shame or remorse, i know this for a fact and i cant elaborateso dont get sucked back in, any one of us, i had to get a counselor too. ill never let any man again do it to me like thisto the last person, u sound like you are going to write and tell him about this-run the other way girlfriend!!i loved the guy and look what he was doing, writing all of u at the same time, taking all of our rear photos, telling us all we were the only ones sharing that sick crapi hate him now
to the very last person who posted and wrote, that Howie does know about this blog... how do you know that? if you know then you must still talk to him? and you've met his mother too? maybe you are right he thinks these postings make him feel special but if you know how to contact his mother, you're probably right she might be able to encourage him to get some help. he must need help. you could create a new user name and send her the information. its maddening that he is emailing everyone at the same time and yet is unable to do anything in bed, and is unable to be truthful. he is just using everyone to make himself feel special? that is truly a player. but if he really knows about this, then he knows he didn't suceed.
i dont know how to reach mamai only met her a few times she is sweet but something is wrongi cant go into detail but my contact with Howie now is more professional lets say and i dont want him to know this is me and he could already.something he said made me think he has read these or someone told himbut maybe someone should tell mama,i could maybe,others should too.more is betteryou are right,it is a player of the worst kind, i only meant when i never thought of him as a player because nothing happened ya know?it is more than maddening,dont u feel cheated used and pissed,i do in more ways -he is a cad of the worst sort-the kind my mama told me to avoid when she was alive-u can see what all the professional counselors say about him-he is poisoni dont care too much about him getting help. he thinks nothing is wrong with him. what i care about is more gals getting injured like this. i truly believe he lovees all this-more attention. he can just say to people it is made up or a stalker-more lies ya know?what are others going to do
whoever called him a 'cad' is right. he used all of us you are right for his own sick stuff. hopefully someone is writing match.com that will help save some women. those who live in tahoe can do more than i who don't live there. it is mean and damaging he dates innocent women who don't know how screwed up he is.
some time ago i was told about this site and the other sites and wasn't going to post anything because I don't want to give you all more fuel, but I have read with SHOCK what you people are posting. I have decided to jump in and set the record straight. You've all gone way too far. I think whoever is posting here is the SICK ONES. You all sound like jealous women who are just angry that Howie stopped emailing or calling you - doesn't he have that right? does he owe you something? He doesn't like to hurt people's feelings so maybe he tried to avoid hurting you. Not a single one of you have said he did anything other than write and email fantasies and YOU WROTE HIM BACK and he took pix of your rear. Well, didn't you want him to take the photos? I'd bet you all sent him photos too. You are also angry that he didn't do more with you physically, really? you are angry some guy didn't take you to bed? Certainly sounds jealous to me. Do you think all this public talk about such private matters is very nice? What gives you the right to try and harm him? As you have probably guessed by now, I love and care deeply about Howie and I can tell you he kisses wonderfully, and our private life is great, but private. I have spent a great deal of time with him and know he has a good heart. I also think I know who a few of you are and I'd list your names right here and now but I won't be like you, for now. I've had unfortunate and personal conversations with at least two of you who have tried to hurt me deeply to tear Howie down to me to break us up. I am sure I know who the young person is and I can guess on a few others. This site is shameful. Let him live his life the way he wants to. If you don't like it, don't email him, try that. You are responsible for your own level of interactions with him... as one of you wrote, you "liked his attention." Try liking your own life instead. I'm sorry if I sound angry, but you have all gone way too far. And, I pray he doesn't know what you all have said about him here. Stop trying to hurt him and go have your own life. I really can't believe how mean some of you are.
that is the funniest thing I have ever read. i mean really funny. if it is true, u are totally kidding yourself, but i for one, do not believe a thing you wrote is true!!! i think that is a made up posting!if u think you really are his girlfriend, which i doubt, then for sure you are NOT the only one to have been involved with howie the past few years u are totally stupid! & i dont know you, u don't know me, and i dont care whether you choose to date him or not. i doubt you have good kisses with him or any private life at all with him except in your mind, what a joke. this is probably howie writing this!maybe we don't choose to say more here what more we have done with him, but it is a lot more than what you are saying, my relationship with him was not just him taking photos or emailing by the way,, and if u have dated him in the past 4 years it is at the same time as menobody is trying to break up anyone.it isnt about you at all. i have no clue who u are but i doubt u are howies true girlfriend , howie is not able to have a true girlfriend, he admits this so if u think u really are, good lucki betcha i have spent way way way more time with him then u toowake up and smell the coffee!!u cant believe how mean we are? i cant believe how stupid you are!
the last poster is very angry which says alot. i'll never post here again or read anything else, I submitted my message bcause i care about him and think what some of you are doing is awful. HOwie and I spend every weekend together and have last fall.we see each other almost every day. We enjoy a good and easy relationship, i can't understand even the slighest reason why any of you who ever cared for him, would post all this.
if thats true darlin,why is he still sending me sex stuff why is he still on matchcom writing galsa good and easy relationship? that is funnywith howie? good and easy?u are a blind fool and i doubt u even exist;if u do believe what u want and best of luck with yoru good n easy, but it will happen to u too then u will come back and write on here, in ur heart, u know itwe have all been where u are darlin
I told myself I would not write here but here I go too. I have known Howie since college and could not believe I found this.This is directed to the recent person who posted in defense of Howie.I know how you feel. I do. For years I defended Howie as you are doing to to my family and friends. You sound just like me and what I said to my family. I thought we had a good relationship too even though inside I knew it was more for him than for me. Other people saw that it wasn't what it should be and were warning me. I didn't listen and I continued to speak in his defense saying "but you don't know Howie" , "you don't understand him like I do."Well friend, what happened to all these other ladies on here happened to me. And we separated. So don't be blind. Love is blind afterall. That is what the person here was trying to tell you I do believe. If your relationship is so wonderful and good, why is he still on dating sites and writing people. I thought he was loyal to me and he cheated on me among other things that I will not elaborate upon.
there is no defense for Howie for all he has done to all these women and there are many more, think of aLl the people right now he is emailing... we have to contact match.com, i am not a member there so if anyone else is, please send them this link. i think he must use that site to get people to start these sick emails and leading to everything else. someone or several people keep posting there is more but won't elaborate maybe you should to tell his 'girlfriend' here what a fool she is. i have saved 100s or 1000s of emails and could prove what a nut job he is. i flew out to see him and he acted like a different person and like i barely existed. he is just cruel. he plays with peoples emotions. someone asked why we are so angry? because he was pretending to care about people when it was all a cruel joke. leaving people emotionally upset and needign help to understand. how does someone become so selfish and sick?
i live in tahoe and have been seeing howie and known him a long time. he really pissed me off when i found out he was not only a Playah, but a huge liar. I hate liars that are the most cruel. but i'm going to get even with him. i've let people in town know how he really is and believe me people do know. because i found this site i've told people about it and he doesn't even know that i'm getting even. i don't want to say how in case he reads this , but I don't think he does. i'm going to tell everyone about this site. I know people he works with and around town. everyone is going to know. i couldn't believe when I read this shit on here. i knew he played me for a fool and used me but now i know it was worse than i thought, but i can get even with him. he has said shitty things about me, trying to make it like i am the problem. I don't think so Mr. Playah ! i agree he doesn't care about who he hurts or uses. then its time to show him what can happen when someone is as sick as him. we should all call into the radio station when he is on the air and call him a playah... the number is 530.541.5758. and after all hes done to me if I could save a few people from the amount of hurt it would be worth it. who joins me?
I am the lady who wrote earlier saying I knew Howie since our university days.I did not rest last evening and I made a decision to tell all of you that I not only knew him for many years, I was married to him. So yes you can imagine I spent many years defending him to my family and also to myself. I wanted to believe in the man I loved and married. My family saw become unhappy. We were happy at first but no matter what I did or said, it worsened. I was a very sheltered and shy person and lived with my parents always before I moved in with Howie. I had no sex experience before him. He liked the mice even then ladies. He changed me in ways that I cannot speak about in public and I will never be able to trust in another man truly because of this. He was my first you see, and and he ruined me. So to the lady who is in such defense of him, a leopard never changes his spots. A wise old relative taught me this and now I understand it. I say to you, be wise, be open, do not shut your eyes, because you sound like the fool that I was and all of us were. I also ask you, why do you believe that you are more special and unlike the rest of us. Because you spend nice time now? Any man can be on good behavior for a short time, but a leopard does not change his spots. You are not any different from us because this is not about you, it is about him. No man is truly a good man and has this many ladies writing things things about him on the internet. A man can seem superficially to have a good heart but still be a danger if damaged. And from what I read here, he is more damaged now than 20 years ago.I had to speak again for I have never spoken the truth. I will not speak again. The warnings have been sounded. God bless.
my heart is breaking for the person who was married to him, was that 20 years ago? I thought he was married just a few years ago, is that a lie too? were you married very long?you wrote how he changed you, i wish i could talk to you. maybe we could we help each other by talking. was could have happened that affected you 20 years later? he hurt me deeply but i blamed myself for awhile because he was funny and yet he was so cold to me when we were together. it didn't make sense. when we talked online he hinted at marriage a few times, or like things would be lasting. when we went out, he was as cold as a stranger, which hurt. i talked to friends and other people who helped me see how really messed up, and a real shit he is, but I didn't stop emailing or talking to him. it felt good when he says how i was the only one we did our private things with (not mice but other things). he said he was divorced but he said that was a few years ago. you make is sound like you were married a long time or something. and like he did something bad to you to be still so affected. we still email and talk and he doesn't knmow how much of a creep i think he is. and now, you are right he must be sick and damaged, no wonder a woman won't stay.if the girl who defended him real and really spends all that time with him, then he is a low-life low-class person because ...fool girl... i live in tahoe and he always acts on the radio like he wants dates so what does that say about what he really thinks of you or how he treats you? married person, thank you for being honest and telling us the truth.
I must clarify, but I really will not write again. Please understand. I am up again without restful sleep over this internet site. I said we met 20 years ago for the first time. We were not married then though. We married much later (many years) when we got together again, but we have known each other many years. He is very damaged but that is not an excuse for his cruelty.The lady who is mentioning dating him appears foolish and naive but she wants to believe in him because of the things I know he is telling her. He is an expert at manipulation and lying and she just does not see it yet. I feel sorry for her because her psyche will be ruined for years like yours is, like mine is. She mentions their relationship is "private" and this is a warning sign to me because he brainwashed me into thinking our special things were private and the word "private" was ingrained into me by him. My counselor at a later date told me this focus on privacy and his emphasis on things being "private" was his way of manipulating and controlling me. He wanted to stop me from telling anyone the sick things.This really is the final time I will write. Please do not ask any more questions, I thank you. God bless.
i have a message for all of you. first of all, this is not howie, it's someone who cares about him. i told him this weekend what you've all done and i have a message for you. for Genese, he's very sorry the marriage didn't work out. For Lindsay, you had no business trying to drag his mother into this ? very wrong to do. for Lisa, after some emailing and two weekend dates, you need to find someone in your local area. for Norine, you are a cruel person for all you've done to 'get even.' for Gayle, we have a restraining order from the court. stop bothering him.for Jenn, given how much you said, you equally contributed. none of you will hear from Howie again, you've all said what you really think of him and he's been informmed. if you don't like your names posted on the internet, you should have thought about that before you hid behind anonymity. enough is enough. move on.
Darlin, you are missin my name on that list!! Thank the Lord!! Whew!!!!!!!He is a liar. He isnt telling you about everyone because my name isn't on that list and he just wrote me recently. dunno about the rest of y'all but I find this hysterical.What kind of guy has a list like that of gals that hate his guts?I have dated lots of men and not one has had a list of gals who hate his guts so much. And he has to take out restraining orders? That is funny almost. He isn't even so hot, that is the real funny thing.......Darlin, you sound so sure of yourself but what you really sound is very dumb and naive. How old are you anyhow? One day darlin, you will look back on this and be so embarrassed and feel so much the fool.As the ex said, a leopard doesn't change his spots. I just find this letter hilarious!!!!! Plus, you are only guessin who is writing what.For all you know, I wrote all the letters on here! I could be Gayle pretending to be Genese and Jenn and Gayle and noreeen and susie and lisa and pam and laura and misty!!Maybe this is gayle and i wrote every here one of these letters...couldn't that be the truth???don't you think by guessing who said what u could really piss someone off who never wrote a single thingif you really don't know, u shouldnt be naming names; and u missed mine so that makes me laughi am laughing my ass off at that letter from this naive thing here defending her man no matter whatisn't there a song 'stand by your man' you sound like a fool gal! and a real dumb one at that(and no i am not angry, i think it is all hilarious)
I don't think it is funny.My name is on that list and I am pissed because the information is wrong 1) I did not write on this blog except for one post-the other one also telling people to stop and 2) the information you have about me is wrong but I won't go into detail because I don't care anymore! If Howie wants to lie about what happened with us, I don't care.I believe I have told him repeatedly that I would be happy if he met someone he really could be close to, so I am happy to hear that he has and I hope that it works out and that he doesn't hurt another person.So I do not think it is "hilarious" because I don't appreciate seeing my name on here.Just because I read this blog and wrote Howie about it, does not mean I participated in it and you really should not post someones name unless you are 100% sure they did.I was a good friend to Howie and what I have to say now is fuck you for putting my name on here without knowing for sure I wrote something. I didn't write anything. Did I mention the blog to him and how it freaked me out yes.It freaks me out because his lies to me are far worse than I thought they were. But after I discovered he was a chronic liar, I really didn't expect anything else from him. So he is a dick to accuse me on a public board of writing about him, when I didn't, and when I kept his confidences all this time. Anything I had to say to him, I said to his face. And I said it more than once. I don't need you(whoever you are) to tell him for me! And you, don't you think that something might be wrong with you? To sit here and defend someone who obviously has hurt so many people? Do you really think it is all them? Come on!! I doubt people are upset because they are jealous or can't move on. I don't think the blog is the right place for people to voice their opinions, but still for you to defend him, and to accuse people when you really don't know for sure who said what and when all these women are obviously upset is just as wrong. I am sorry, I have dated a lot of men, and not one of them has a blog with posts about them on it! Be real!
u should be ashamed of yourselfthis blog is not about ladies just being jealous and not moving on with their liveswhat u did, blaming ladies who have been emotionally mistreated, is the same as defending a rapist or a child abuser, u should be ashamed of your yourself. u think u can truly know someone in such a short time? u come on here and turn this internet site around to try to make these ladies look bad - u would look nicer if u said howie is sorry he has hurt all of u can u please stop now. something about him admitting it and finally saying he will stop this, but no u blame the victim? that is just sick and wrong and u need help yourself i wrote on here earlier and u did not get my name either,so that says something. he did act abusive to me, i did have to see a counselor about it (as some of these others did) and my family said he was abusive to me. he played with my head-on and off, hot and cold-and the sex stuff was just mental. my counselor said he seemed to have some kind of psychiatric disorder, she used the word chilling and manipulative, cruel, & sick & she helped me deal with it and i met a normal nice man and am married nowi do not live in tahoe anymore but i dated him probably for longer than u have even known him. i will tell the rest of u that why do u continue to talk to howie or be friends with him. stop this behavior and get some help yourself if u continue this. u deserve better. but i do not think it is your fault-i think u are telling the truth about him and that this gal defending him is stupid as the others say. she also is not too smart to write down names when she doesnt really know as the last person says and is just guessing. i think she just made a bad situation worse-blaming the victim. not an intelligent way to treat ladies who are upset . oh yes we all are making it up and saying howie is the golden boy and we are all jealous and don't have lives? i do not think so. if u believe this, u need a counselor worse than howie or any of us. i think it is terrible for u defend him thinking that will make the blog go away. u seem stupid to me to be honest because now i want to write even more about the things he said and did to me and i wasnt going to beforei feel for the lady who was married to him. poor soul. the new one sounds like a female who grew up on an alcoholic home like i did or some dysfunction - either that or u are plain dumb-either way u are not a kind soul i can see so maybe u are a good match for howiei bet your dumb move will just make things worse now. shame on you!!!!!!!
oh this is funny, Howie is such a psycho all i have to do is keep emailing him and eventually he'll email me back and i'll just play with him for awhile, for kicks, and when he gets lonely or the poor fool "standing by her man" eventually leaves and she will, he'll answer some emails and come running back to me and i'll play with him like he plays with mice ... and when I'm done squishing his heart like he did mine, then, i'll bury his reputation. why do i dispise him... for all his lying to me and to all of us even to the lady with him now... it's the lowest form of anything.
im going to print out this whole thing and send it to the tahoe police department and court system so they see what a nutjob is heanyone who has had their name on here wrongly or who has been accused of being a stalker by this bastard should do the same thingyou got my info wrong too, ya stupid bitch. he is lying
Howie hurt me too, a lot. Mostly when I too realized he is a liar and lies for the sole purpose of hurting others and gaining more women in his life. i also blame myself for allowing myself to be used by him.but i'm not mad at the woman defending him, she will be hurt so i feel sorry for her, if she isn't hurt by this already. its very obvious that howie doesn't really care about her because he is always on the radio joking about needing a date. just listen to the show girls and you'll see, he makes it very clear there isn't anyone special around. so, little girlfriend, you'll be with us soon enough. His ex-wife is right, he'll never be able to keep a woman and that will prove what a loser he is. A good man has no trouble keeping a woman around.who is going to the police department and what will they do about a man who lies? nothing, but they might call him and embarass him so go for it. and oh yeah, you left my name off the list too.
my name isnt on the list either and i did write about him last week. if they had any smarts, hed come on here and say sorry instead of blaming people for his sickness. he never admits his sickness. that is the problem. he played with my emotions and used me. he hurt me really bad. i dont think i feel sorry for the gal defending him even though i did the same thing. she thinks it is our fault which is wrong and not true. he instigated all with me. i did not. he chased mehis hot fantasy for me was me wearing black shiny patent pumps with super tight tights on and tight shiny black pants. i am only five foot two and this was too tiny for him too but he liked how big my bum was. he said it reminded him of jlos and he liked if i sat on him. he always was picking at my looks though in a mean way. putting me down. putting me in my place until i had it. then he wanted me to stomp on a mouse. it started innocent with a mouse coming out of his pants accidently. yes first the mice were in his pants and this got him going. then the mouse somehow made it onto me. then i would stomp it. what got him all hot was if i would smash the mouse and he liked to hear words like the guts and the juice coming out. this turned him on. then it progressed to me sitting on the mouse and smashing it with my ass and especially putting the smashed mouse right on my privates area all smashed and me coming on the mouse. the more this talk went on about juices and mice guts the more turned on he got. sick huh?i told a few girfriends about this sick talk and they told me what was wrong with me for staying on. i guess i also had lo self esteemsick huh? i tried to go along like he said and i also tried to gain weight because he told me he wanted a bigger girli dont know what the police would do. he talked about taking restraining orders out on gals though so it might ruin his credibility with the police. i wonder what the owner of harveys would do or the radio station or the owner of the iimprov comedy club. i am still in tahoe so if i sent this blog to them, no one could tell about the postal return address. i could use a fake namethere are websites to write about men who treat gals badly. ill find them for you allthe only thing i find funny is that she ran to him to tell him about this and she thinks dissing all of us will stop this. that is just plain dumb
my name is there a friend just called me who knew what howie did to mei never wrote here and i am getting blamed when he came after mehow is it my faulti did not contributehe tried to get me to do things no one my age should have to do i am only 21 . he is like 50!it still haunts me
another onesomeone or many sure hateshimhttp://thetruthabouthowienave.blogspot.com/
its difficult to understand why this guy wants to hurt so many people. we all need to take the survey on the other site and put the truth about howie out on the dating sites and around town.i for one will do whatever i can to make sure people really know because my counselor said that someone who wants to hurt animals like this could be very dangerous. i agree with the person who wrote he is damaged. the person who was married to him sounds sad all these years later. i'm glad i didn't end up in her shoes. girls. let's stick together. this has helped me see i wasn't alone, what he did to me, he did to others and he didn't care about how much it hurt. everyone posting on here helps.
Is anyone a member of 'dontdatehimgirl.com' ?? i tried to post his picture and story there but you have to be a member, if someone is already a member can you post it?
i was real glad to see too i was not the only gal. it made me see i was not crazy and it was him, not menow i am involved with the nicest gentleman who treats me like gold,thank the Lord for bringing him in my life, howie is a sick sick sick bastard,did he pick on how u looked? clothes, make up, things u said, he wanted to be the only one talking about himself, and for me to just admire him and laugh at what he said, listen, to you the last person, you need to open an acct on there- just do it with a hotmail,yahoo or gmail fake address , u do not have to give your real namei will put him on every site if you gals do it too, everyone has to stick together i agree. how dare a guy lie like thisi am starting to think he is the one who wrote the stuff on here. does he really have a girlfriend? anyone know?I do kinda feel sorry for her. i was fiercely defensive of him too but it was a humungous mistakethe killing of animals is a bad bad sign of a sociopath-go to google and enter these words "are you dating a sociopath" and read the articles-swhat do you think?i'll do the survey later,
i was thinking that howie must have all the emails we have right ladies? and i emailed him and talked about all this crazy fantasy stuff too. I am worried he might be upset about everything we've said on this site and i wouldn't want him to post anything about me or for anyone to know what I was writing to him either. my name isn't on the list, so i'm a little concerned. I did like him a lot.
i dont think he will put your emails out there,it only would make him look worseand dont forget most of us have all his emails, do u have them? we could print them all out and do som ething with them. he could say they are fake i spose but it is obvious they arent
fill these out:don'tdatehimgirl.commanhaters.comtruedater.comhttp://www.cheaterdb.com/http://www.womansavers.com/rate-a-guy.asphttp://www.ripoffreport.com/default.aspunfaithfulpeople.comhttp://www.bustingcheatersonline.com/http://www.playersandpsychos.com/index.phphttp://www.cheaternews.com/http://cyberpaths.blogspot.com/
oh ladies ladies ! I've created some false email accounts and am emailing Howie. I'm going to lie to him because he doesn't know I'm posting on here. My name didn't make his 'list' so I'm going to show him how does it feel to be lied to. I know he will email me back, he always does. I know what he wants. I hate him so much now. I hate how he just plays with us and then drops off for months and then writes again and drops off again as if we have nothing better to do than wait for him. and I know this woman will leave him, she'll finally 'have enough" and walk and join us. when she does let's be good to her, she is just being used right now. he's probably emailing me right now.
i was afraid to write because i thought that he might find out who wrote anonymously or try to do somethingi read the blogger rules and found out something interesting.blogs really are anonymous. you cannot sue someone for saying something that is the truth about you. even if you think it is libel or slander, blogger never shuts down blogs either. there are even al quaida and racist blogs. people have tried to shut down blogs like this and the court doesn't let you because of an amendment or something, there is like no waythere is nothing on this blog that I see that isn't opinion and for that reason blogger would never shut it or give out info on people who writei am letting some of you know who might be afraid to write what happened to you with howie i saw he is on dont date him girls.comone good one is cyberpaths blog, they profile a cyberpath now and then. and players and psychos. both on that list. gosh, read that and you wont feel so alone. what he does is so so common, the way he does it is so typical of cyber psychopathsto the lady who just wrote, don't do things like that, i dont think it is mentally healthy for you really, to interact with him, really, do you?
there was another blog, 'the truth about howie nave' who took that down? It was helpful
I am very concerned about the women Howie is probably using at this moment... and I live in tahoe and hear him on his radio show and how he tries to get people to think he's just normal man, but my counselor said he is very damaged and he damaged me badly. i called the tahoe police department and they said he sounds like a nut case but without evidence there is nothing we can do except to warn peoplelike his ex-wife said, the warning bell has been sounded and people need to know.
good news you don't think anyone can be sued. But I'm wondering if he can do something like put up his own blog and put up our last names? I don't want anyone to know I was emailing him it would be embarassing if my family found out the things we wrote to each other.
If he puts up people's last names, it is based on guessing, not the truth, so he could be sued for libel in that case and you would winfrom what i read you can put whatever you want on a blog as long as to your knowledge and experience it is true. u can even use a fake identity if what u post is based on the truth. so dont lie. If he puts up my last name which he wont because i was not on the list either, and i doubt he suspects me, I will take the hundreds of emails i have plus the hard copies of hours of chats that I saved in hard copy that have more gruesome fantasies than have even been posted and i will press charges myselfthis blog is so typical Howie-he sends a woman to fight the battle for him. he blames others, even lists them and blames them instead of admitting what he does is wrong. that is just so uncool. he is a weak person, a manipulator and a coward. so don't let him scare you. he knows hes wrong and he is not going to put your last name. if he had any real brains he would have already smoothed things over instead what does he do. blame the other person, what a weaklingbut from what i read that is typical psychopath behavior. never admitting you could wrong. and this poor poor lady he is manipulating. if only she really got it. when i met him he told me about all these women who would not leave him alone and bothered them and he only dated them a few times and he had to get restraining orders and ignore them to get rid of all of them. all bullshit now we know is lies lies lies. he said this to manipulate me, to make me feel special, to seal our gruesome fantasies as "private" so i would never rat on himso dont worry. u did nothing wrong, don't let him manipulate you and hurt you more than he has. dont give him that power
about the tahoe police dept i think the reason for calling was not to make them do something but he said on here he has a restraining order on someone. who is the kook? her or him? if the police or court new about him, they might think the restraining order is pure crapdid they know him when you told him. u could ask to talk to a cop or detective who handles harrassment complaints. this blows his case against "gayle" if it is even real-poor gayle-to high heaven
its all so amazing he could do and say so many terrible things. i wonder when he'll learn or if he will. reading all these postings i realize how much he used me.
I don't think he cares to learn to be honest.He doesn't believe in therapy-this I know for sure since he told me and he will know who is writing this if he sees it and I honestly don't care! I still have not written anything to betray his confidences and why I don't know why I still feel that loyalty. He doesn't appreciate it, that is obvious since my name was on the list along with a lie about what happened between us. Is staying with someone once for 5 days and once for over a week and sleeping with them every night, the same has two weekend dates? Is "some email" over 1000 emails? I have over 1500 emails can you believe that? I have them all in a folder. I also have some cards from him including two Valentines card, a letter and card after a surgery I had and a ton ton of photos (maybe even over 150 photos or more) that he sent me and that we took together. We would stay up all night long chatting on yahoo chat and I actually have those saved. I forgot that until someone else mentioned chats. I also have a story he wrote me about a movie he wanted to make with me-that is all we talked about for weeks/months. It doesn't matter, my point is if I really wanted to hurt him, I could. But I don't see any point in that. I really do not believe in revenge. And I don't think anyone is writing on here out of revenge or jealousy or because they can't move on!!! How fucking insulting is that!! People write because they are so floored by their betrayl they want others to know. I did not go to a counselor like many of you did. I actually had just stopped seeing someone right when I met him. But I totally understand why many of you did. I probably should have gone back to a therapist but I kept everything to myself and completely isolated myself and became very depressed for a long time. I believe in karma in a serious way and I personally think if this is happening to Howie, then he deserves it and I told him this in an email. It is too bad he can't accept that somehow and try to change from it, but I don't think he will. I am mostly still mad that my name is on "the list", but honestly I don't care that much anymore. I was shocked to find this blog as I had no clue and so that is why I wrote him about it. I was so embarrassed when I saw all this and felt so used, humilated and stupid. I do not believe I trusted him and that is why I wrote him about it. It stirred everything up for me all over again and honestly I had pretty much moved on emotionally even though I still cared about him. I had not been involved with someone for over 8 years before I met him because of a very serious illness. So to me, it was a big deal and he knew about this and I told him that I did not want to get involved unless he wanted a serious long term relationship. I think I told him this on our second email. So he really did not care about me, because he continued it despite knowing this. He was only thinking of himself. He is the most selfish man I have ever met and I also have told him this to his face. After he treated me like this, this week (putting my name here and blocking my email to him) I really don't care what I say on here anymore. I really don't. Why should I keep my loyalty when I have been treated as bad as the mice or other creatures he wanted me to stomp on or sit on!. I have like 10 email addresses if I wanted to keep writing him but I don't. Can you believe he even has my things I left at his house because they couldn't fit into my suitcase, and he has refused to send them to me for the past two years now! Even though he knows I don't work because of illness. What kind of a person does stuff like this? I kept giving him the benefit of the doubt because he kept telling me how busy he was and he told me all the time that life was so hard for him and he thanked me in email for understanding and just a few weeks ago wrote me an apology email that he had been bad about being in touch. And because I cared about him as a person, about his health and welfare, I stayed in touch with him. I really really cared about him and I can't believe that he has done this to me and to all of you. It is just shocking to me to be honest.Really it was always him, him, him, him, and what needed when he needed it. Do you know his sisters had a nick name for him growing up. They called him "the annointed one" because he was treated as so very special and important from his mom? This is really how I felt I treated him and how I felt about him for so long. And now to find out that he must have contacted me in between people and that even at the beginning when we were talking nonstop, he must have been doing it with others! It makes me want to literally throw up! It makes me want to throw up out of embarrassment and out of hurt and it makes me feel the pain all over again even though I HAD MOVED ON!! He broke my heart to be honest. I really liked him and I cared about him and for months and months he was acting the same and we talked for quite awhile about having a more permanent relationship with me moving to Tahoe. He wanted me to meet his mom the first weekend we were together and he called me like every single day for months. This part of the relationship lasted maybe 5 or six months, I can't remember exactly but at least five. We met online in December 05 ( I still have the first emails) and it was in May that he disappeared but before that it was non stop emailing and talking on the phone and me going to visit him.. Then, he was mad at me because I talked to him about dealing with a problem that I saw he had, and he literally stopped talking to me 100% over night. Imagine going from 100-300 emails a day and a phone call or two every day for about 5-6 months to absolutely nothing. That month he stopped talking to me I cried all day, all night every single day. I just could not believe he went from treating me like I was the center of his life to NOTHING and without ONE FUCKING WORD TO ME. He just disappeared!. It was absolutely cruel. Just writing this makes me cry. A month later he did talk to me and we started emailing again. But it was never the same because he wanted really just to have fun , not a real relationship. For the next six months, it was kind of on and off and he kept saying he was going to visit but he didn't. But he never was honest with me and he never ended it really but it still felt romantic some of the time. I couldn't take it anymore so finally I decided to just try to be friends with him and for the last year I have not expected more than a friendship. Nor have I wanted more. I never felt the same about him after that month he disappeared. But I still thought we would be friends. I had no idea until this week that he wasn't even really a friend to me. Really it is shocking and I have tears running down my face writing all this out. I have never told anyone all of this. Not even my sister or my best friends. I was too embarrassed about the way he treated me and I didn't want them to know that I put up with all this and still even tried to stay friends, and I certainly would not share the sex stuff with anyone, no way.....I did not plan on writing this tonight at all. I came on here to see if people were posting. I can't seem to stay away. I know I have written a novel and I don't care...... Every single word is the truth and I am glad to get it off my chest even if no one reads it.All I have to say is that he is damn lucky that I am not a vindictive person or I would post the fantasies we shared. They are much more involved then what anyone else has said. Any one else get any kitty or baby fantasies. There is no way I will tell them, but I hope he does see this so he can see if I was really mad, I could do something a lot more to damage him. The truth is I have never once told a single person the stuff we talked about. I felt very very loyal to him for a long time. And he also talked to me all the time about privacy and how important it was. So I took it seriously. What a big huge joke and a total waste of my energy and time for over two years. I normally never regret things, but right at this moment, I regret every second I wasted caring about Howie.
everything you wrote, i could have wrote myself. we talked and talked and then stopped all of a sudden and then started again. when you tell howie something he doesn't like, he drops you like a rock. then, when he needs you, or is bored, he writes again. he is unable to have a real realationship with anyone and as his wife posted here and said, a leapard never changes his spots. it hurts me too everything you wrote and it hurts that the person defending hin says she 'spends everyweekend with him,' because he has emailed me during these times so what does that say? was he emailing and calling me too durnig all these times. we used to stay up all night chatting , and i've saved those too. he would hint a long term things too. our fantasies were like some of the ones people have described here. there is a lot of pain for those who were ever involved with howie.
If I was this guy I would be posting first names, last names, who has kids and where you work since he seems to have nothing to lose at this point with what you have done
ignore this last creep ladies. what we have done? what a jerk off, he is probly a guy who has been also listed on dontdatehimgirl.com, maybe he is the guy who sued them and lost because u cant sue for opinions posted on an internet site, period, upheld by the court& if he dares to post one single thing, about any lady he has hurt and is on this board, he will regret it for the rest of his life, because many of us have proof. he has guesses only, and freedom of speech is allowed on blogs.to the last person before the asshole.are you saying that howie has been emaailing and chatting with you in the last six months and doin this fantasy stuff? i wanna know because i was doing it too the last 6 months
the last 6 months? howie and i have been emailing a lot longer than that and we emailed tons. i too have many emails and proff of whast he has done with me. he always started it too, he would say things like, "hey hot stuff" and "been thinking about your rear" and all that and then we'd start. hes always askimng me if I'm still interested in glass tables or sitting on things. oh yes, girls, we've been emailing a lot. and i was always the "only one," and he'd say how he needed me and i knew he did. he needed me to write to him, now i know how much he really did need it he can't do nothin else. what a loserand to the asshole who jut posted, i agree, if that idiot even thinks of posting shit about me then i will tell even more, yes about kitties aqnd pups. babies? what's tha about ?
i know u have been mailing longer than six months, but within the past six months have u emailed about all this stuff? i want to know if it is the same time as me, that is why i ask, what a jerk off
we emailed alot during the past 6 months. sometimes for hours and hours about all his fantacies. sometims in the middle of the night ro afternoons. then he'd have some lame excuse about being busy whne he didnt' right back , now i know he was probably emailing someone else athte same time. was that you?
i have been emailing howie for the past year or so off and on and is there others too? two of you said in the last 6 months too? how many were there in the paet year? he's more than a jerk
get a life ladies, is this guy worth all this?
screw you to the last person, i do have a life. if someone messed with your life and head and u just found out about it, u might feel differently. of course the bastard isnt worth it, that is a pointless comment, we just didnt know until now how much he wasnt worth it until we saw this, i have damn fine life creep and it will be better with him gone, and this blog says he has a girlfriend too? what the Hi was in the last 6 months too, what a damn creep. i dont believe it, that is why i asked u and i know about the glass table and mice and cats, no pups or babies here, cant believe this shit
BE VERY SURE WHAT YOU ARE ACCUSING SOMEONE OF!TRUTH is a 100% defense to defamation or libel.Accusing someone of defamation or libel when they are telling the truth, however, IS actionable.(from http://cyberpaths.blogspot.com/)
Hum.........interesting stories. I wrote to Howie for a while after seeing his Match.com ad and all and all had a pretty good time. Howie acted pretty much the same what towards me as the other stories but it didn't land me in therapy......Why???Because when Howie said I was the maybe the one and that he was going to cancel his match.com account I logged in periodically to see if he actually did. After seeing he was frequently online weeks after I never took him seriously. And there was no reason for him not to write to other women. He'd never even met me. Besides, it seemed strange for someone who hardly knew me to say such a thing. That's a real red flag to look for.Yes, he often mentioned inviting me up but was always busy. After it happened twice, similar invitations were put in the I'll believe it when it happens file. That's where they belong.Yeah, he's clearly got a fetish thing happening. Not sure how that came about but really the women on this list should really look at how gullible and star struck they were instead, or at least in addition to hating him.Sometimes you learn these things the hard way. But do try to learn so it doesn't happen again. With a little research (he's listed on a Gay site you know) you could have made some better decisions as to whether to play or not, and how much of your heart it was resonable to give away. His CD "I Can't Believe I Sang That" is full of songs about confused sexuality and his struggles with lying to partners. psssst....that's a clueThe evidence was really all there from the get go. If you wanted something more than some fun and oddball times don't ignore the red flags! Take some personal responsibility for your life! Geez, how hard was it to see if his profile was up on match.com and how often he logged in.
good points but have some heart, not everyone had the same experience as youlucky you that you are so wise, but you don't have to be so judgemental to those who maybe weren't, whats your problem? he didn't send me to therapy but i am not going to judge those he did because i am not them, and i feel bad for people he upset like this. i didnt know he was even on matchcom because i met him in person as am not on matchcom-just one exampleso thats what i think of your posting-talk about judgemental! whew!!anyhow which gay site? out of total curiosity, doesnt surpise me, my family thought he was a closet gay
http://andrejkoymasky.com/liv/fam/bion1/nave1.htmlYeah, I know my comments didn't seem sympathetic but they are meant to serve as a jolt towards enlightenment after the greiving. It's more of a devil's advocate thing since there is so much support here already for the pain so many have experienced. So I thought I'd add a little push for future responsibility. Gaining wisdom is a hard process and I'm not twenty.The site above merely speculates on Howie's sexuality. I too think it would be a noble thing for Howie to apologize for any hurt he has caused. It would be a healing process for everyone, Howie included. Lisa (the other Lisa)
i had warning signs and ignored them. but not because im blind or young or stupid, but because a bond had formed with him before i saw the warnings. he seemed completely sincere to me at first when we met which was in person that site does not say he is gay, there is even a section at the front saying that not everyone listed is gay.i think howie is all what people say here but i dont think he is gay i cant see howie ever coming clean. once he did something really shitty and he refused to apologize and i asked for it. i never got it and that got me to end things. he most likely is saying things like we are a bunch of lying bitches. he already did that didn't he by putting the blame on us being jealous? jealous of what is what i want to know. some said that is insulting and it sure is, what is there to be a jealous of? does she think we are jealous of her? i feel pity not jealousy
what did howie do that was so 'shitty' that you ended it for you yet he still upsets you enough to want to figure it all out.
there is so much shit on this site if anyone communicates with him again it will be surprising. the 'other lisa' you sound like he didn't ever lie directly to you, most of us had relationships with him full of deep and painful lies. did you read what his wife wrote? don't you understand he used us? some of us know him in person and heard from him how much we meant to him yet he was lying all the time. he pretended to be someone he is not. he led us on and led us right into some deep hurtful experiences. you really don't understand our experiences. i do feel responsible for all my involvement, but not for believing him. he should have said he was just a player.
Who's A ClownHow many time have I let myslef Fall from your graces?Leaving no traces of a perfectedRomance of yesterdayI feel I'm sometimes better offWith no one beside meNo-one to lie to nowNo one to cry to except me(CHORUS)Plowing down the near-straight highwayRacing with the cloudsVisions of your face in white, I call your name aloudNever thought how fast time goes When someone's not aroundI only hope that deep insideYou still can love a man Who's a ClownIt's not that easyWhen you're trying to decideWhich feeling representsThe feeling that you hideAnd I hindIt's when I'm with a crowdThat the laughter shows my bestYet when I've hollowed out the shellThat's emplty I detestI detestcopyright 1982 Howie NaveFrom I can'b Believe I Sang ThatUnfortunately players don't tell you they're players, if they did, then they'd be honest guys. But sometimes there are clues. I understand the pain that is being express here. My comments were for future growth only. Howie absolutely owes all of you a public apology and not a lame excuse that a stalker is writing these entries. Lisa S.
Who's A ClownHow many time have I let myslef Fall from your graces?Leaving no traces of a perfectedRomance of yesterdayI feel I'm sometimes better offWith no one beside meNo one to lie to nowNo one to cry to except me(CHORUS)Plowing down the near-straight highwayRacing with the cloudsVisions of your face in white, I call your name aloudNever thought how fast time goes When someone's not aroundI only hope that deep insideYou still can love a man Who's a ClownIt's not that easyWhen you're trying to decideWhich feeling representsThe feeling that you hideAnd I hideIt's when I'm with a crowdThat the laughter shows my bestYet when I've hollowed out the shellThat's emplty I detestI detestcopyright 1982 Howie NaveFrom I can'b Believe I Sang ThatUnfortunately players don't tell you they're players, if they did, then they'd be honest guys. But sometimes there are clues. I understand the pain that is being express here. My comments were for future growth only. Howie absolutely owes all of you a public apology and not a lame excuse that a stalker is writing these entries. My experience with Howie confirms the truth of what is being written here. I love Howie to, and that is why I urge him to step up to the plate and make amends. It would be good for everyone. Lisa S.
When I first heard that song, I actually cried. I thought it was a great song but I see what you mean about the lyrics. I used to play it since Howie gave me the CDs. They are now in a box with a bunch of other Howie things in a closet. I still haven't thrown the stuff out but soon I think I will soon. I feel that Howie has changed a lot since he was younger or that is my guess. He was super negative about relationships when I first met him. He told me he wasn't good at them and why oh why didn't I listen. Because we got along so well and had so much fun I guess for a good long while.I really don't want to post on here anymore. I was blamed by him for posting on here when I didn't and I actually spoke up for him as I have before multiple times. I told my story the other night because I was so incredibly pissed off about getting named and blamed when I didn't do anything but write him about the damn blog, but I am going to try to not comment anymore. I actually do feel bad for him that all of this has come out like this. Yell at me if you want for that, but I do. If he would have had respect for some people who were close to him and really cared about him (like myself and I am sure others) maybe this would not have happened this way. So I don't feel sorry for him in some ways because he caused this. You can't treat people badly and expect it to not come back to you. It always does.Someone wrote a bad review about him on the internet and called him gay and can you believe I wrote the guy and told him off? So I have always been very loyal to him even when the romantic part was over and I did not have those expectations. I am a fiercely loyal person, not that I ever got brownie points with Howie for that! He really doesn't appreciate it I finally learned this week for the last time. So anyhow, I am glad you are putting Lisa S because I don't like seeing my name on here.Howie can say what he want now but we were super close at one time. And it was that fact that I believe ended things, that he simply did not want to deal with a major problem that would have brought us closer. Instead of dealing with it, he chose to have superficial things going on with a bunch of people, and I knew that. I ignored lots of signs.One of the biggest red flag I had was on my visits to stay with him he kept talking about all these women who would not leave him alone and emailed and wrote him and he had to take out restraining orders. I really wondered at that moment if I would be someone he would treat that way later and I knew it would happen and it did. He gets bored when the newness wears off and something is serious has to be worked through. I knew right then, that it would not work out because I have had enough grown up relationships to know they are not all fun and fantasy all the time. There were other red flags too but what is the point of mentioning them anymore.I do wish he'd get some help for himself but he doesn't believe in it. Someone doesn't change because a woman tries to get them to change. Someone only changes is if they really in their heart think they need to and they really want to.Anyhow, I mostly wanted to thank you for putting your last initial up so I am not blamed anymore for anything I didn't write or say.If I write anything, I'll identify myself so I don't get my name put up as the one who betrayed him because I am actually the stupid one who never did and maybe should have.Lisa
from what you u went thru, u sound too forgiving and nice about to me, maybe i am a bitch but im not goin to be so nice.. counseling cost me a lot of dough and a lot of heartachenot sayin it wasnt partly my fault, sure, but DAMN, this site shows me it wasnt all me, no friggin way
Howie is obviously a FUCKING NUTCASE!!! What a sick asshole. He should be destroyed.
i was just lookin at those song lyrics-1982 it saysthat is 25 yrs ago! most men grow up in that time, don't ya think??it is one thing to be in your 20s being an ass to girls, it is another still doing it at 50!now that is just creepyhe sounds sicker now. its kinda sad but mostly its creepy. think about ted bundy and how charming he was. and he killed animals too didn't he?
i have been reading all these posts with anger frustration sadness and so on. i've posted a couple of comments but not too much. I thought i loved howie but if you spent anytime with him you'd learn that he not only lies about everything,he doesn't give anything to the people in his life. he lies abnout who he is what he is what he wants doesnt want and if he's emailing or dating people or where he is or why he is "too busy" to write you (because he's writing others) and on and on and on. howie lies to himself, that's what his song is about that he doesn't even know himself so he hides in the crowds. we shared a lot about our lives with each other a lot. THAT is what the betrayal is also about. when you share with someone things that are very personal and private and you share because he leads you to believe you have a relationship with each other, then you find out he was just pretending to care so you would keep giving of yourself, THAT is betrayal ladies. it's horrible all the things he has led us into, not just the sick sexual fetishes. but he leads you on to write all that so he can use you to get what he wants and then you find out it wom't ever lead to anything else, because he is not interested or can't or won't or he's gay. THAT is the betrayal too. he knows he is unable to have a relationship but pretends he can so we all start giving of ourselves thinking we are getting to know each other yet now, looking back, we can see he was lying and pretending only to snare us in a trap where we wanted him and anytim he wanted, we'd be right there. the hurt he caused me has lasted so long because he contined to lie when I could sense (like Lisa) that his words should go into the "i'llb believe it when i see it file," but his continued pretenense of caring , "oh i've missed you," would draw me back in. He knew what we all wanted to hear or need and would say or write it but knowing all the while he never meant a word of it. that is the hurt peoplel to those of you who don't get it. I gave myself to him because I cared and "love" someone wrote? i thought I loved him but any person who could be destructive to others is not a decent person , has no soul really and if I loved or cared about myself, I can not love a person without the basic love of others, respect or consideration. we know he will be alone all of his life, he'll draw in others only the lie and lead them into a period of being used. I know he doesn't thimnk he did anything wrong so he'll never apologize. I will tell everyone, I will continue to find dating sites and do whatever I can to keep the truth online so others may avoid such pain. We are talking years of hurt here. Lying about whether or not you are involved with someone? Ladies, he's doing that right now ! even after all this. The person 'defending' him says they have been together since last year, well he NEVER mentioned her to me and i"ve been involved with him during that time and so have other on this blog. 25 years after writing a song about how lying and hiding is his only way to be, he's still doing the same thing and I too feel very sorry for his 'girlfriend,' I don't know if she has really seen this, but imagine what she is going through coming to terms with all of his betrayal and how he just used her. I could predict that he will push her away like he did me, then draw her back and lie all the time, then eventually, when she is devestated, she'll leave and tell all of us the real story. in the meantime, he'll write all of us or some of us, or we'll see him around and he'll act like he's so interested , and he'll live a lifetime of lies. I feel much more sorry for him than all of us, we can pick ourselves up (and thank you , this has helped me) and realize we were suckers by a sick abusive person, but we were lucky, we got out, we didn't end up like his wife, 20 years later still hurting. I have dated very loving men since Howie and realized how much I was missing. this blog showed i wasn't alone to believe him, but I won't rest until other women know.
what you went through is terrible and the others here too. i feel so sorry for anyone who meets him in the future. he sounds like a pathologic liar and sociopath. they never changecome to our site cyberpaths.blogspot.com and report him. it is confidential and healing. lots of great information to help you and others in this crime. this might be a punishable crime at some point in the futureharrassing someone is against the law but emotional rape like this isn't?good for you for speaking your truth to help othersit is obvious you care more about that then jealousy or revenge
Howie, 25 years ago you wrote a song and back then, you had some insight into your life. I don't know you well or why our paths have crossed, but I hope and pray that glimmer of insight still exists somewhere deep inside and that you pick up the phone, call your doctor and get some help.I'll add the same words I said to Damien, "The way this thing works is, you do the thing that you're shit-scared of, and you get the courage afterwards"Major Archie Gates, from the film THREE KINGSLS -my last post
Okay truely my last post. I just wanted to say what a great group of women are on here. I'm sorry I didn't have more sympathy originally for what you went through especially the sexual stuff.I really never got all that far although I did get the movie mouse squishing thing which did have an artsy aspect to it. One of the reasons I didn't end up deeper into where you were taken was that I was always arguing the logistics of everything.....No Howie, I can't sit on a hamster, you'll never get it to stick on the table. Hampsters don't have tails!I'm so glad I never took it seriously. Really glad! My best wishes to you all. Lisa S
i thought what u wrote to him was kind of sweet. he would have been lucky to have u or any one of this nice ladies as real girlfriends and not people he toyed withu didnt know how serious he was then but yep he was not jokinghe probly didnt want to persue if u were doing what u were knowin him because he is dead serious about thatand its a turn to kill the animals and have the guts come outdont leave ls, you are a nice voice of reason
gosh and ls, do u still chat with him? maybe you can get him to do somethin that is why i aski think it is a hopeless thing, but ya never knowu didnt know how serious he was did u? yeppers very serious. he is lookin for someone who it turns on toothat gal he found probably does like it too but i wonder if she knew how many of us there are and how many in the last six months were still chattin to him about this and morei didnt even know he had a gal. i asked him why dont u meet someone local and he told me all the gals there in tahoe were not smart types, kind of hicks and plus he said, it was too small town and he didnt want a local, he said he didnt have someone special there
THE PLAYERHe'll meet you and sweep you off your feet;He's nice and he's funny, so cute and so sweet.Surprisingly he likes the same things as you;He does all the things that you love to do.He's the perfect guy, the one of your dreams;You belong together or so it seems.He looks in your eyes and plays with your hair;He tells that he'll "always be there."His touch is so soft, his hold is so tight;His words are so soothing, his kiss is just right.You ditch all you friends for your new obsession;You don't realize your future is full of depression.You think that you love him, you give him your heart;little do you know that he'll tear it apart.You do what he wants though you know its not good;You told him "slow down" and thought he understood.You let it slide by he's just having fun;You'll learn to like it as time goes by.He's taken your heart and locked it away;And you see him with a different girl the next day.You cry and you grieve, but then you forgive;He'll "never do it again as long as he lives."At this point you've fallen into his trap;He has all control when you're in his lap.You believe he's sorry you're together again;You give him another chance, he's your best friend.You're right where he wants you, he molds you like clay;And you see him with girl number three the next day.He got what he wanted, accomplished his goal;He still has your heart, which he evilly stole.He's taken your purity, you still can't believe;You feel hurt, cheap and extremely naive.You know he's an ass but you still want him back;And you grieve about all the qualities you lack.All you wanted was to have some fun;Now you wish this whole thing had never begun.You wish one day you'll see him cry;That one day he'll feel what you felt when he killed you inside;But you know that he won't, he's too numb to pain;He'll be with some girl while you cry and complain.Beware the players! they'll steal your heart;And they'll give it back once its all torn apart.Don't let them suck you into their game;Cause once you lose you're never the same."Becky"
this really is sick, this whole thing,im reading this over cause i am shockedi cant believe he told so many people about his fetish for us sitting our rears (bigger rear the better) on mice, hamsters, cats, whatever and killing them as a turn on for him, the glass table, no wonder he likes big rears, now we know whyhours and hours of chatting about this and ways to do it, how it looks to him from under the glass table, him taking photos and that is how he gets his jollies? his real jolly he said is that maybe he is the creature and afterward i sit down on him, and that is the real excitement? ughsterpuppies & babies? whoever wrote that , is that true? I never got those and thats just majorly crazy he said this whole thing turned him on so much that we'd have great sex after we did this fantasy and that didnt happen ladieshe told me he had never told anyone this but me and that he told me because he felt close to me, like i wouldnt leave him if he told me, he tried to get me to do this stuff too not just in email,in personthis is the shocking thing to me, that he told so many others all at the same time, what for? he had me at the time (plus others now i know) what does this sick man even want?do you all realize how crazy this is this is ? not just the fetish which is absolutely disgusting and evil, sadistic and a sign of a psychopath, but that he told me/us we were the only onesthat is so manipulative, so evilwhat is wrong with a guy who does this. he probly still thinks its all us, don't you think? blaming us? mad at us for speaking up when we were the ones manipulated and lied to?and this new person defends him? does she know he is doing this with others while she is with him? he is telling her its not so, but it is! i think everyone who wrote on here is just plain in shock,finding out they werent the only one even if they knew sort ofthis guy is just evil, i dont care if he has good points, i think now any good points i saw, any love i had, were a big phony lie, i think what we see on here is more who he really really is underneath the laughing bullshitthis is who howie really is, dont y'all agree?
you are all so right about Howie. his 'laughing bullshit,' that's what gets me the most. he was laughing at US for how stupid we were to fall for his 'ur little secret' and 'this is just between us' our 'private stories' you are 'the only one i say all this too' and so on. pathological liar ? absolutely. that's why he doesn't care at all. listen to what his wife wrote that he is the same now as he was then. He doesn't care if his 'defender woman' leaves him he'll pick another or already has a few he's still drawing in. but his need for emailing is not about lying about relationships. it's about his need for attention and for everyone to think he is a wonderful guy and having all the ladies like him. he needs that and wants it. he has no concern for how others feel because he doesn't need to, there is always many women waiting for him. like we were all waiting for him. i used to wait for his emails and phone calls. he would say he'd call later but didn't and then some lame excuse abotu how busy he was. the last poster said after doing the sitting thing howie would say you'd have great sex but then you didn't , does that surprise you? a guy who can have great sex wouldn't be sitting online for hours and hours you say? sitting on line instead of being in bed with you and having great sex? i wonder myself why i would emailing him for hours but I too was promised it would lead to sex but of course it didn't and now i know he used me and others to get his 'girlfriend' to probably give him the kind of nasty talk he likes. if he wanted sex he could have had that. he didn'ti don't know if he is 'evil,' but he knows how to say what we wanted to hear, to get what he wanted. he will never change and when this one with him ends, there will be more and more. he'll never get married and as long as we keep the truth on the internet , at least every woman has a chance to know what she is getting herself into. he is cruel and he needs help.
i think it is evil to kill any kind of animal , but to kill them for sexual pleasure? does that sound evil? what is it if not evil and sick?i think it is evil to not have empathy-to not care how your actions affect other people and how you hurt other people. does he care he hurt you? probly not. he more likely thinks its you.i think it is evil to blame other people like he does, like he did right on this internet site when he is the one acting so cruel and so sick to so many peoplei think it is evil to manipulate people like this, i dont think every one on here is a stupid, naive person, everyone wants love, everyone wants to be special, and he is a predatorno one on here did anything wrong. wanting to be loved and feel special is a good thing, everyone has hurt in their past, none of us are bad or stupid for believing him and wanting attention from him. why would you think someone is lying like crazyyou did not do anything wrong by waiting for his emails. i am sorry you were used like that, so was i, u had no clue did you what he was really doing did you? of course you believed him, why shouldn't u? thank GOD most people are not like him, this kind of thing can scar you for other men, we cant let that happen but it is hardi dont think he is laughing at anyone because he is thinking only about himself and his own needs every second of every day he is a narcissist - just read about narcissists and you will seepeople with these kind of sicknesses never ever changeit is sad for all the people to come, cause u are right, there will be more and more, he might marry again too to get the world to think he is normal but he wont ever be normal and think of that poor personhe will always be a narcissist he will always be a predatori do not feel sorry for him
what did you mean by this? "wonder myself why i would emailing him for hours but I too was promised it would lead to sex but of course it didn't and now i know he used me and others to get his 'girlfriend' to probably give him the kind of nasty talk he likes. if he wanted sex he could have had that. he didn't""what kind of nasty talk do u mean and what do u mean he used u to get his girlfriend to go give it to him? i don't get it, can u explain
saw a new survey here, dont know where it went beforehttp://truthabouthowienave.blogspot.comandhe is now listed here now twicetruedater.comthe comicalbear profile on matchcom is gone. that is where i met him. maybe one of you reported him or this blog scared him enough to take it off. if you know his other dating names maybe someone should put them on there, i dontalso other places to list him-playersandpsychos.comcyberpaths.blogspot.comwomansavers.com-on there nowdontdatehimgirl.com-on there now dont be afriad to say your truthmore listed on survey site
i used to go out with howie when he was on the road he was eccentric but a lot of fun. I never thought he wasn't communicating with other women, but he never asked me about all this stuff. we both got out of it what we wanted.
I am howie's girlfriend. haven't any of you ever been jilted before.... ? you're all mad he didn't have sex with you, mad he emailed you and others at the same time? i knew when i met howie a year ago i was one of a number of women he was meetnig and he was one of several men I was meeting. i was glad we didn't have sex right away sure told me he was careful. but you think because he didn't have sex with you he is sick? yet every word he said, you said too. you're going to say i am dillusional and get out now. not a chance girls. I know what you are trying to do and I know what you are up to. he has shown me sone of your emails and photos you've sent him (as a woman it is surprising to me how much some of you gave and sent to him without knowing him that well). I spent a lot of time getting to know Howie and care about him and love him quite a lot. He's not perfect no one is, but I'm actually thinking he should put up his own blog and show the other side of all this. Although it is a great way to get good material for a book we are working on together about how women try to control men throught sex (even fetishes) and how they have such a love/hate thing with men. How some of you thought you had a grip on him because you had this secret but you're mad to learn you didn't have a grip, you're not the only one and he chose someone else. Like why are some of you still emailing him trying to seduce him into emailing you when you say he's sick? and when you know he has a relationship with someone, what's your point? what are you trying to prove? I've seen some of your emails when you write, "I want you to come over and have sex with me right now. Please Howie." C'mon, and you say he is sick yet you want him. Or, "Please Howie don't tell what we talked about," you want to keep it all a secret and "I know you're going to write me back." you are all villifying me yet you want him to choose you instead? Howie has not read this blog, (even tho some of you send him the links), because it's not important. sounds like you think we should list all guys under preditor men, or not dating.com and so on if they tell you a lie. is everything you all said to him the truth? c'mon girls, grow up. men don't always tell us the truth and neither do we.I await your loving and supportive replies, I'm sure (women to women) you'll all be so kind and understanding.
A book by Howie? On control and fetishes? Wait, let me get OJ's publisher signed up for that!
Howie, aka nanc. Paranoia is setting in, see a doctor.
oh funny. can't accept the fact that howie has a girlfriend and it's not you? Howie wouldn't waste his time writing on here. We're home having a nice BBQ with the comics today and getting a kick out of how crazy all this is. Several of you I've met so, trying to pretend I don't exist is silly. OJ's publisher? that's a great idea, do you know who that was? I hope you have a great holiday. I am. Got to go turn the steaks and have a beer. You ought to go and find something to do.
howie's girlfriend jane? i thought he was writing bunches of gals right now and still about sex? are you sure you arent a buddy just trying to stir things up? you sound like a guy, that is why i ask you jane. jane does it bother you that he is still writing gals about sex? He tells you they are sending him photos huh? and that he has no part in it? thats what he is telling you jane?jane and Howie are writing a book on how woman control men through sex? that is a riot and sad and sick at the same timejane, this shows a certain attitude and belief towards women, doesn't it jane? it shows that jane belives that women like to control men and that jane believes sex is the way females conrol men. that is what this says. Jane, only people who really beleive this about females and sex would write a book like this. Jane, this is why you sound like a guy, Jane you are you a guy?if not, why are you so hostile towards other females? This isn't villifying, it is just an observation from what your statements are jane.right now jane you sound very very angry. why are you so angry jane? and why are you so angry atother females? jane, someone also needs to inform you that most guys and most people are not like howie, You seem to think they are, that this is ordinary every day type of jilting or lying. jane, you seem to think this is common place stuff in the world and that howie hasnt done anything wrong, isnt that what you are saying jane? Jane aren't you saying that all the ladies on this board are to blame for what has happened to them, but howie is not ?correct me if i am wrong jane, this seems to be what you are saying. and jane, if you think all men are like howie truly, if you think they all lie to females, they all like to crush animals they all like to screw over lots of people, then jane u must have quite the dysfunctional background and view of life, dont ya think?also jane, i don't hear anyone here saying they are angry about not having sex with howie. it is doubtful you will get it jane, because you are so angry, but they seeem to be saying that the big turn on of killing animals was supposed to lead to sex, it was the foreplay, and that is the odd thing. jane, most men do not find this foreplay a turn on, do they? it has nothing to do with being angry about not having sex. most women are content to not have sex,and just to cuddle aren't they? but they are a bit sickened by a guy who wants them to sit on hamsters and puppies and mice and smash them to bits? do you find that a turn on Jane? is that your foreplay jane?do you think that is ordinary too jane?jane, it is great you are so happy and so perfectly paired,maybe u just found your perfect man and will live happily ever after. nobody on here would be mad if you did, i dont think so jane, i think theyd be happy for you if it were really true
I think jane and howie both need doctors in a severe way!
You are getting a "kick" out of how crazy this is?That is sick.The Tahoe police didn't think it was funny when i talked to them and I have lived in Tahoe my whole life. And either do others in power.What kind of a sick gal would blow this all off and pretend it isn't real and think it is only because others are jealous? What kind of a sick girl would think this was funny, and would blame others like thisthat is psycho and it is sick.And of course howie wouldn't read this. He is mentally ill and everyone in Tahoe knows it and they do not think it is funny.
Who is Jane, I thought her name was Nanc or is that Nancy? Is Jane someone else? I'm confusedI've been emailing Howie, Nanc, for sometime. He still writes me and yes alll about sitting on animals. We like writing about that to each other because it is a turn on. I haven't done it yet, with him, but apparently some of the women on here have done it with him. I willl end up doing it because he will always want it. What you don't seem to understand, Nancy the idiot, is that he LIED to all of us and you too about those fetishes being foreplay (like the last person posted) and it would lead to a regular relationship when he really doesn't want one. I doubt you have one with him. But, I do know who you are, I've seen you around town with him and I just think you are stupid. Why is it Ok with you that he cheats on you with us? Don't you think writing to other women about sex is the same cheating as anything else? You make women look stupid for staying with a liar and cheater. Think about whast his wife wrote , he's going to do that to you to. If you are really there, how come he doesn't talk about you on the radio and acts like he is 'single' and looking for dates and pretends you aren't around and lies about being alone all the time? I have what he wanted. He's probably a psycho, but knowing him in town can do alot for me too. You won't stay for long or you'll lose him to people like me eventually. Wake up sister!
Forget about the don't date 'em sites. Someone call PETA now!! That should stop him.
she has no idea how stupid she is or how stupid she looks, that is the pathetic thingbut everyone else in tahoe knowsand you know, howie does not like stupid, did you know that nancthat is how i know it won't lastbesides that fact that he hit on me last month, and another show girl another night, he told us he is not dating anyone specialinside his head right now, he is already thinking and knowing how stupid you are nanc for even writing on this blog and sticking up for himhe told someone this last week and it got back to us, everyone knows it but you tahoe is small, don't forget itnanc, he has already told people he thinks you are stupid, and he is hitting on others all the timethe more you don't believe it, the more you stand up, the more you cut down other ladies who are hurt, the more stupid you lookand no, i am not jealous in any way, i think howie is a creep, and i believe all of this on herethese sound like nice honest ladies and for you to come on and cut them down, makes you look like a complete stupid bitch and cold as ice too
PETA has been informed.
GOOD who / where did you write. If you tell us others will do.I can't believe they think this is funny.And if there is a girlfriend, who cares. This has nothing to do with her. She seems to think this whole site is about her and people being jealous of her. I dont know her and I could care less about her. She is a moot point and temporary.I cant believe they sit and laugh and he shows her photos and blames these poor gals and she believes him? What trash. They deserve each other.She sounds dumber than a door knob and I know the police in tahoe do NOT think this is unimportant.
PETA's contact details can be found at http://www.peta.org/about/contact2.asp
This is someone who works with Howie.I asked him recently if he was seeing anyone and he said no one serious, but a lot of ladies sure want him. He made some jokes about it too. And made some remarks about a few asses where we work saying he wouldn't mind those.I always thought he was a fag and most of the guys did. We thought all the gals were fag hags and that it was all talk.My girlfriend told me to read this because she knows I know him. I didn't want to but finally I did today. I never trusted the guy, and this confirms it. I am not PETA fan but sitting on rats, hamsters, puppies and cats? Killing them as a turn on? Sorry that is not normal. I'll take my lady over that and not even with animals on the side. I like a good female by herself thanks and I don't lie to mine.And listen ladies, most men are not like this. That chick is nuts, there are a lot of good guys around who will treat you well and dont lie. And my lady does not manipulate me with sex. We have a great thing going. This chick's a fool.He is feeding her all kinds of bull and she believes him. I think I know who she is now and she IS as dumb as a door knob. This kind of a loser guy has a story and a line for everything and she is eating it up.He is not treating her right if he won't even tell people that she exists and if he is hitting on other ladies at work, which is true. I have seen it, and often. And it is not just flirting or chatting either.
I do not even believe Howie has a girlfriend. The letter written sounded exactly like him.And no female (or a decent one) would accuse other females of doing all this out of jealousy. No way. I can't imagine a woman being so stupid as to go on a public internet site and say all that. I don't think any of the people on here sound jealous at all. Not one. I don't think any of them sound they still want Howie and are begging him to come back. I don't think any of them want him at all. No way.I also don't see anywhere where someone says they are angry about not having sex with him. I also don't believe for one moment that anyone thought their little secret would work to control him. That is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard in my life. This is all just warped defensive thinking. I also don't believe for one moment that Howie is not upset about the blog or thinks it isn't important. If it wasn't important, he wouldn't post on here or ask whomever that person is to post for him. You should all ignore that person (AKA Howie) because he is trying to make people look bad. Of course he can't just own up and apologize or admit he was an asshole.He can tell everyone it is jealous women that want him and that is why they are all writing on there, but that doesn't sound very true after awhile does it?Doesn't that sound like bullshit to any person with 1/2 a brain?It is obvious to me that the people on here are posting to warn others, because they don't want other ladies to go through what they have. And I believe that is the only reason people are posting here. Period.
yeah, sounds just like Howie to me too. Especially the "Got to go turn the steaks and have a beer" That's a total guy thing. Guys are usually really possessive about their BBQ's.
reading all this i agree the fetish thing is really out there. i never got into any of that with him. but sounds like the emails between you guys were about the women wanting to do the sitting on mice or rats, ugh, was that appealing? I'm glad it sounds like none of you did. sounds gross really.
this is Howie's girlfriend againyou guys are too muchmaking up things, i can see right through it all, why don't you think that i am real? some of you say you have seen me and then you say i am not real?i know he isnt writing any of you howie is a wonderful lover and just because he didn't want you doesn't mean he doesn't want me and so what if we have a threesome now and then with another guy or an animalit is none of your businessyes i am real and i love and care for howie and what we do is private. and we get married soon, you will all see this
Thanks for the invitation to stay on this blog and the compliment as to being the voice of reason. Actually, you might change your mind about this when I tell you what a strange connection I have with Howie. And actually, I'm not so sure what to think of it myself, but have a look at a site I just loaded,http://www.crookedlettere.com/login.cfmYou'll need to login as there is material under copyright. I have removed the mp3s of Howie's songs as not to annoy him.The username is "Guiseppe" and the password is "Voila"Basically, the site is scans of a book by Arthur Yorinks and Maurice Sendak called "The Miami Giant." Just a short illustrated children's book but the odd or sychronistic thing about it all is, that the two main characters in the book are spitting images of a closeted transgendered crossdresser I knew in Australia, Damien, and Howie too, or at least I think so. I often feel like Dorothy from the Wizard of Oz running into people I know in my dreams, so the red pumps are a really appropriate symbol to represent me.It's almost as if this book was a dream of my life in terms of my interaction with Damien and especially Howie. Just have a look. And it's really because of these matches that I feel some connection to Howie. There is a part of me that would like believe that there is some positive sychronistic positive working in the universe that says things happen for a reason. By reason I mean some sort of universal unconditional love that facilitates growth and connection. Both of these two men have narcissistic personality disorders but I don't know if either one will ever face up to that so this positive sychronistic theory of mine really isn't amounting to much to be honest. Still I guess I am always a sucker for stories of redemption. I'm not sure what to think of the whole thing. But some time, after I started to email Howie after seeing from his profile he wanted to hear from someone "downunder" (that was my era) I noticed the matches with this book. So I decided to spend a chunk of my time documenting the matches I had with some of my dreams from a few years before, with events that eventually took place, sort of in a similar way this book also matches with events in "real life." And, no, I'm not psychic. Probably only someone as bizzare as Howie would have accepeted those emails of mine and it helped me to tell the story to someone instead of writing so much out all by my lonesome. So, I have to thank him for that. We stopped writing about a year and a half ago but I did give him an update not so long ago about the match with the book and a philosopher in Paris. You'll see what I mean if you look at the link. I got the movie thing again at that time but wasn't interested. All my dream documentation now is on a disc and I've started a philosophy degree so, maybe it will lead to something. Problem is, it's kind of a really crazy story about matches in a children's book, a cross-dresser and a comedian with an unusual fetish. I almost hate to bring it up!!! But, I think it might contribute something to the theory of there being a collective unconscious. We'll see. The view that this is all too far fetched to be believed is gaining ground.BTW - A guy who spends all his time online writing such emails has an addictive fetish, that's why he does it even to his complete detriment. I did drop Howie an email today but no insight at the moment that's visible. I tried, and can't do anything more. I'm sure Howie is the one writing and posting on this blog as nanc. Although that last post seems so far out that I wonder if it came from either one of them. I'm glad he's reading this. It's not meant to be mean. There's a problem. The funny thing is, the easiest way out of this desperate situation, is to step up to the plate and say "I'm sorry." No matter what has been done, evil or not, that option is always open. There is always a way out. In this case, asking forgiveness is the only way out.Anyway, have a look if you like. You might find it interesting. Lisa S
dear lisa s -- this is nancy, you are insightful to notice that last post saying she is "howie's girlfriend" is not me, I didn't post that but it does prove something I was thinking, which is, a number of people are posting on here making up a lot of stuff. I will always sign my name and email account if I post on here, I won't hide under "anonymous"No, Howie and I have not had 3somes and certainly never anything with animals. Whomever posted that lying saying you are me, you have proven there are "fake people" on here posting outrageous stuff, which is too bad. I wish you all well.
"Nancy" get off this blog and let Howie answer for himself in his own voice and not in third person. Lisa S
lisa s, you are interesting, will glance at the postsi still don't think tahoehancy exists even if that last message was a fake, it doesn't matter really whether it was or wasn't. she could have just have easily made up the last post as well. i could sign this post nancytahoe toothe reason i don't think she tahoenancy exists that howie would not be serious about someone who even responded to these posts, he simply wouldn't, he wouldn't like it and i know that, he must not know or he would tell you to ignore it as he ignores everything, it is just all crazed fans after all, crazed desperate females, correct? so who cares , why respond?if tahoenancy exists, she is completely irrelevant anyhow, unimportant to what this blog is about. it isn't about her. she hasn't quite gotten that yet. she is short term. if she really exists, which i don't think she does, and she truly did not care or believe anything on here, she wouldn't be coming to read and look so often. how many times has she said it was her last post? some things on here might be fake, but i don't think most of it is based on my seven years of knowing Howie very well, i think 90% of it is true including the part about the sexual fetishes about animals, the lying to multiple women, the cheating on them, the fact that he is mentally ill, his confusion about his sexuality and that he is completely self-absorbed, and also his inability to really be empathetic. he is a pathological liar to others and to himself, and there is no doubt he has a severe narcissistic personality disorderit would be great if he stepped up to the plate, wouldn't it ls? you are a very kind person and very astute, but you might know, narcissists aren't capable of that, but you can see you care about howie, because you encouraged him to come clean which is what someone who truly cared about him would do.to tahoenancy, if you do exist and you do care about howie, this relates to you, heed some advice dear, the best thing you could do for him is to not post on here and make things worse. you do sound completely foolish and stupid. whether you are or not doesn't matter. you sound angry and defensive howie needs people to be honest with him whether he wants to hear it or not, he might reject you for it for a short term, but it won't last. you arent helping him buy continuing the denial, have you heard of co-dependence? that is how you sound. completely in denial of the problems he has. even if 1/4th of the posts are exaggerated, most of this is true based on my own experience and i am just one person, i know these women are not all lying, and are not jealous, that sounds totally ridiculous honest it does.also if you want to really help him because you say you care about him, then perhaps you should be wise to not buy into everything he tells you either. i don't say this to break you up because it isn't important to me whether you do or dont, i only care about howie not deceiving and hurting more people, maybe you should instead encourage him to come clean instead of deny everything as lisa s has. that is a sign of true caring. a few people on here like her have said some very caring things about him whereas you are making things worse. you may not mean to but you are.the best thing you could do if you care about him as you say, is to encourage him to get some help for himself, he doesnt need another person totally in denial like himself. that will end in complete disaster eventually. and if you think truly he doesn't need help, then the relationship is doomed anyhow
lisa s, you are truly the caring onealong with a few others hereshe is right "Nancy" i was long winded as usual, it is my British background
Lisa S, this is the other Lisa, I just looked at your little book. First I will tell you that you are very clever. I liked the story you wrote underneath and found the whole thing entertaining.I will tell you that the time Howie was in Montreal, was the time we were involved. And the movie he was telling you about was a movie he used to tell me was "our movie." He told me I was the first person he ever told it to. It was only one sentence at first, and I have that email and the ones that followed. We talked and wrote about it constantly. And not only that, I re-wrote and added to the movie and we added all kinds of other things onto it that were very funny. We had different mice each with a different emotion that we were going to stamp out. I know it sounds crazy. I just can't believe that he actually told another person about it while we were writing it and he was telling me that he had never met anyone like me before. Why do that to me? It is so incredibly cruel to lie to someones face, someone who is simply crazy about you, someone who would do anything for you? It is the highest form of emotional abuse really. I have got to not come back to this blog because reading that he talked to you about that movie when it is all we talked about together for a few months, just felt like getting stabbed in the heart all over again. It took me months to move on from Howie but I did move on and now lately reading all this, I am all upset again. I guess I just cannot believe that we shared all of that and that he was doing it with someone else (and probably more) at the same time. He totally totally betrayed me. And I never told anyone about the movie or any of this stuff ever! I just dug out the postcard that I got from Montreal and it also says squeak squeak on it. It also has a few comments about him missing me, our movie, and him saying he was able to be mushy with me, which was very sweet and lots of x's and o's four lines of them.I tried so hard to be good to Howie and close to him and to help him and he grew to hate me because of that. I know I pushed too much, too fast, I know I did. But I don't regret it. I cared about him. And I was me, and if that wasn't good enough then he wasn't right for me anyhow and I am fine with that. I want someone who really does only want to be with me alone, not with other people. And I am really sorry this is happening to him. I wish more than anything that he could be honest. I really do. He knows I believe in karma and he I think he also knows that I never betrayed him, even on this blog and I have told him multiple times to get help. I posted earlier that I wished he would meet someone who would help with that. Someone he could really be close to. Because as funny and goofy as he can be. he is tormented inside, and I feel for him because of it. I have been there myself in a different way from him.Well Lisa, I am writing this to you really, and I have nothing else to say. I just think what you said was very honest and I admire that. Howie needs that from people, not people who also treat him as the annointed one.the other Lisa(I felt like I should write.. the other white meat.. i don't know why I think that is funny, i am really upset right now)
i guess we all wrote to him describing "our movie" i did that too, but it was 'exciting' and stimulating for some crazy reason to imagine all that. our imaginations were the sexy thing. I never got the impression he would do any of it, he liked the idea of being alone so much and when we got together in person, he was very different and didn't even seem interested in anything. I knew I'd never do what we fantasized about but I couldn't stop writing about it and I guess he wrote to a lot of people about the same thing, but I've gotten over being angry about that and realize I shouldn't have thought it was anything more than emails. I've learned a lot through all this.
Hey Lisa, Thanks for writing. You really need to know that it wasn't that you pushed too much or too fast that did anything to drive Howie away. It wouldn't have mattered what you did. He just wasn't capable of more.If it's any consolation, you still upped me on the squeaks, and endearing phrases. I mean, all I got some lousy comment about Spanish class. How romantic was that?I know you haven't gone the therapy route, but I'd recommend you do a bit of reading on what a narcissistic personality disorder is. It's hard, no impossible, to have a relationship with an empty shell. And I say that at the expense of my own karma like wishful view of life.Your other white meat comment was funny. It made me laugh. Take care. I hope you feel better soon.As for future comments on this blog by "nancy" I'd really recommend everyone just ignore them completley. Commenting on them is just more game playing at this point.Howie has not been ignoring this blog as he sarcastically thanked me for posting his song in the one email I have received from him. I'm not interested in future correspondence with him while he holds the point of veiw that he still has. I have lots to do, so I won't be posting alot. Many praises for the person who put this blog up. The thoughtful comments on this site (including - "ignore this last creep ladies" perfect!) get me back to thinking maybe there is some aspect of karma working afterall, on a broader level of course. Who knows?Lisa S
thanks for that comment lisa s, I so appreciate it and even though I know it intellectually, it still is kind of hard for me. reading your thing last night just floored me again.I am someone that when Howie and I got together, it was the same in person as it was in email, it was actually better, he acted the same, that is the kind of the sad thing, we did really have fun in person, it was email miscommunication that was the problem, and me wanting a real relationship,and as I said earlier, me wanting him to deal with certain things he just couldn't bring himself to do, it just never would have happened.I am so sorry to those of you who got together and he was cold, that must have been absolutely terrible, i would have been horrified if I went to see Howie and that would have happened.What kills me the most is how guilty he would make me feel. and how much time I wasted on him. he told me I wasn't understanding enough about his schedule and how busy he was and that he put writing or calling me write up there with mom; i spent so much time trying to not bug him, trying to not expect more; thinking i wasn't understanding enough; i was always thinking of his needs and I tried SO HARD and now I know no matter how hard i tried, it wouldn't have mattered, that is the saddest thing to me of alli really am going to miss him but i don't miss the lying and feeling bad about myself and knowing all of this. He lied right here on this web page about me, after all the support and understanding I gave him, and that says a lot. i am sorry for everyone who got hurt on here; and i wish that howie could learn from this and really want to deal with it but i don't think he'll be able to even if he wants to, i do think part of him wants to by the waythe other Lps and i really am not going to post anymore either, i have to get away from this thing, it is upsetting me too much
Some of you are good people.Too bad Howie was such a bastard y'all. He would have been a lucky devil to have a few of you by his side.To the one gal who said she learned she shouldn't have thought of it as more than email, you are too hard on yourself gal!!!!!!!! You did nothin wrong!! You should be angry sugar! You were lied to and led on!!
I don't want to come back to this blog much either although it's been helpful in a painful sort of way to learn he wrote about all his sex chat to so many people and to find out others went through the same thing. I will be more careful online writing people about fantasies and private ideas. I think I'll find someone who wants an in person relationship with real experiences, not imagined including sex, time, availability. I thihk the person who posted about counseling is right it might be good to figure out why we were drawn to this kind of thing and chatting endlessly anyway. bye.
Good idea to the last person. Notice I keep coming back too, even though I don't want to. You sound like an incredibly sweet person to me too by the way. I keep coming back for the same reasons as you. I had a lot of counseling in my past before I met H, that is why I didn't feel I needed when I was going through it with him. I tend now to turn to art or yoga to deal with upset feelings. There is nothing wrong with you going if you think you need it, do it!I know you will meet someone really good for you and so will I. We both deserve someone who wants to be with only us and who appreciates that crazy wild side of us too. The fantasy stuff is actually a million times better in person in a real honest relationship, not in some BS full of lies one like this one was for both of us. I agree you are too hard on yourself. It comes out in your writing and I think I even know which your other posts were, the one who was so afraid of family finding our, right? You didn't do anything wrong, just learn from it and move on and find someone really great who loves you and adores you. You will!The other L-
a few of you mentioned this so i went and looked it upread this ladiesand what do you think after reading it, now i know its real and true every word rings a bell to mehttp://www.halcyon.com/jmashmun/npd/dsm-iv.html
Anyone hear back from PETA yet?
dunno about that but the profile is gone from dontdatehimgirl.com and i think someone on here who felt bad, or who got back with howie for more chatting and her fix, took it offthere was one gal who said she was going to keep writing him to play with him and maybe nanc is right and there are a few kooks who want to just keep going with him despite knowing all thisi think i even know who it is, she wrote every day, she was the one so upset and angry, who was going to tell everyone and now she took the nave profile off that site, didnt you. i bet i am rightwhat other explanation could there bei hope someone puts it back , there was 7 comments and those people mattered too
i talked to some friends and since we both emailed about our fantasies, he didn't email me any more than I emailed him, I sure don't want to tell anyone what I wrote to him. But, the idea he was lying about writing others too, thats why i was upset. Emailing stories would be embarassing for anyone to read what I wrote, or said. I still have no idea why it was exciting to write such nonesense now.
are you the gal that took the thing off dontdatehimgirl.com? i wasnt talking about u darlin, i was talkin about the gal who said she was goin to still send him enticing letters, she said she knows what he wants, that she sees nanc around town, she wrote every day, saying she was goin to tell the world about this, now she is gone it seems to be, i wonder if she hooked up again, got to forgivin him now (dont do it girl) went to dontdatehimgirl.com and thean took it off agaian because it is not thereand darlin, some one else said dont be so hard on yourself and she is right, it sounds liek u did nothing wrong dear
she wrote this yesterday:"I've been emailing Howie, Nanc, for sometime. He still writes me and yes alll about sitting on animals. We like writing about that to each other because it is a turn on. I haven't done it yet, with him, but apparently some of the women on here have done it with him. I willl end up doing it because he will always want it."gal, are you still around and did u take the listing off dontdatehimgirls.com you sound like you are still writing him and why would u do that if he lying to all these people and treating u like dirt dear? isnt that that bad for u darlin? were u just writing on here to get him back
Re the Narcissistic Personality Disorder link - oh so totally true. Especially #6 & #7 6. Selfishly takes advantage of others to achieve his own ends Translation: Narcissists use other people to get what they want without caring about the cost to the other people.7. Lacks empathy Translation: They are unwilling to recognize or sympathize with other people's feelings and needs. They "tune out" when other people want to talk about their own problems.And to post (via pseudonym "nanc")that he is going to write a book about this to those he used and abused for his perverted sexual pleasure? He is dead already.
i posed I will keep writing him, when I won't. I was just mad, mostly at myself for online sex chat. I've talked to some friends about it and I wonder now why I didn't think he was emailing others anyway? I am upset with myself to writing about the fetish stuff it's embarassing to think I'd write that. I think the Internet does that, allows oneself to let the imagination run wild while typing. I was upset he emailed others. I too will stick to in-person dating from now on. I vented on here and shouldn't have. I said some things that were just out there to upset him if he was reading this.
here are a few other comments about narcisstic personality disorder that just rang a bell for me-these descriptions fit H to a tee and that there is no point. the article says there is some hope (very mild) if they seeek help but it takes years and years and years because they think nothing is wrong with them"People with NPD won't (or can't) change their behavior even when it causes problems at work or when other people complain about the way they act, or when their behavior causes a lot of emotional distress to others (or themselves? none of my narcissists ever admit to being distressed by their own behavior -- they always blame other people for any problems)."4. Requires excessive admirationTranslation: Excessive in two ways: they want praise, compliments, deference, and expressions of envy all the time, and they want to be told that everything they do is better than what others can do. Sincerity is not an issue here; all that matter are frequency and volume.SO TRUE!! I played a game and tried this on H. If I was all compliments, he was my man, if not, he weould not talk to me9. Shows arrogant, haughty, patronizing, or contemptuous behaviors or attitudesTranslation: They treat other people like dirt.How to recognize a narcissist :Never love anything that can't love you backthis explains the emailing:::Now, it is possible to have a relatively smooth relationship with a narcissist, and it's possible to maintain it for a long time. The first requirement for this, though, is distance: this simply cannot be done with a narcissist you live with. Given distance, or only transient and intermittent contact, you can get along with narcissists by treating them as infants: you give them whatever they want or need whenever they ask and do not expect any reciprocation at all, do not expect them to show the slightest interest in you or your life (or even in why you're bothering with them at all), do not expect them to be able to do anything that you need or want, do not expect them to apologize or make amends or show any consideration for your feelings, do not expect them to take ordinary responsibility in any way.SO TRUE!!!!!!Oh, i could quote the whole article --look at this! It is also essential that you keep emotional distance from narcissists. They're pretty good at maintaining a conventional persona in superficial associations with people who mean absolutely nothing to them, and they'll flatter the hell out of you if you have something they can use or if, for some reason, they perceive you as an authority figure. That is, as long as they think you don't count or they're afraid of you, they'll treat you well enough that you may mistake it for love. But, as soon as you try to get close to them, they'll say that you are too demanding -- and, if you ever say "I love you," they'll presume that you belong to them as a possession or an appendage, and treat you very very badly right away. The abrupt change from decent treatment to outright abuse is very shocking and bewildering, and it's so contrary to normal experience that I was plenty old before I realized that it was actually my expression of affection that triggered the narcissists' nasty reactions.This explains everything to me. If you struggled in your relationship with Howie, read that article.The other thing it says is if you get involved with narcissists there is a very good chance that your parent or parents were. true in my case without a doubt..and the best point to remember is this..........If you're like me, you get into disputes with narcissists over their casual dishonesty and cruelty to other people. Trying to reform narcissists by reasoning with them or by appealing to their better nature is about as effective as spitting in the ocean. What you see is what you get: they have no better nature. The fundamental problem here is that narcissists lack empathy.
you wrote:And to post (via pseudonym "nanc")that he is going to write a book about this to those he used and abused for his perverted sexual pleasure? He is dead already."that is pretty telling isn't it? there is no hope for howie, absolutely no hope at allthink of all the poor women yet to come in contact with him
about peta, did u hear back?i dont imagine they will do anything but i dont know either
i did talk to a few people about all this and mostly since we wrote each other describing in detail about our fantasies, the only people who might care are women who want to date. They should know it's just emailing, he's not emailing one person, it won't lead to dating the guy, or more than maybe a kiss or two if you see him and what he writes is likely not very true.
My experience with people with a Narcissistic Personality Disorder is that with an enormous amount of time and energy you can make a smidgeon of fleeting and temporary improvement. I've never seen anyone as far gone as Howie, especially with the hinding behind those "nanc" or "nancy" posts. Well, the door is always open, but I'm not waiting around.Lisa S
I like the comment that trying to reason with a narcissist, trying to change them, trying to enlighten them is like spitting in the ocean.I also liked the part about once you show all your caring, your love and devotion to a narcissist, that is usually it, the end. That has been my experience with two men with that disorder I have been involved with. I tried to keep the door open over here for so long, i still want to, it probably still is, but how much can someone take. I just started feeling mushy the way I used to and i stopped myself.. and erased it....The whole thing to me is sadder than words and I'd give anything for it to be different, not even for me, but for Howie actually, for his life, we only get one life, but that is like a little kid wishing on a star or something like that....the other L
Regarding PETA - Things are moving up a bit through their automated replys, to standard form letters to it's being investigated, please wait for a reply, Thanks again for writing and for everything you do for animals. Your letters and actions save lives! etc. etc.
who the hell is jane?
"saving lives"? that sounds pretty intense. all Howie and I ever did was email for hours on end and I guess we all wrote about the same things with him but I sure never did any of it, like others on here, I can't believe how many hours I spent emailing with him. I came to believe he likes internet and emailing because it keeps people at a distance. and in person, it was all just kidding and fun. nothing like the sexy emails.
Yeah, PETA is a bit like that.
Here's how it started for me-"it's called "Contents Under Pressure" that will probably top your definition of off the wall I imagine. The synopsis is this: picture a glass table with a camera angle shooting from under looking up at a mouse (or baby rat not sure yet) bitching about his lot in life. You know-talking and complaining that life sucks, "I am at the bottom of the food chain in life. I am snake food, lab experiments." You get the idea. In the background appears a blue blur while the mouse is still complaining about his lot in life. Could it be the sky falling upon himself? With that said, all of a sudden........the rodent looks like a Picasso-like painting and is smashed and distorted in this blue material indented-crushed and saying, "The sky is falling, the f**kin' sky is falling!" and as he says this....the camera pulls back and it reveals a woman in blue that has just sat on the mouse wearing this blue spandex-like solid color and she in turn is complaining about her lot in life about the glass ceiling the fact that she can't advance in the world so it is all relative to where you are on the food chain pyramid of life. I am still refining it but dark enough? Would be fun to shoot though. Maybe try on video and get a feel for the look. That will be the challenge though. Oh yeah-on her rear it says "The End" because it is! lol. Well?xoH"
Sorry, that last one was from me. Lisa S
Sorry, re PETA, yeah, I think it was all just fantasy. There wasn't any actual killing of animals done from what I experienced. But I only speak for myself.
Lisa S, I just wrote this long thing and erased it. I just don't want to go there. Lets just say that I have that exact same thing on my computer, every word, exactly, every word. I just about flipped seeing it on here.This is upsetting me really more than I can handle, and I am just done here.I was loyal to him for way too long and I would give anything to blow up right now and tell all of you things that would totally freak you all out completely---But I am not going to. I actually do believe the things we shared were private and since I am so upset seeing what you just wrote, since I was told along with that, that he had never shared it with any living soul out of fear, I am so mad, I just have to get the hell off this thing...All of this happening to Howie is karma. It is too bad he won't learn from it.the other L
it is not all fantasy, just so you know.....
Just for the record, that last comment was NOT mine!the other L
whoever posted its not all fantasy, may we please have your name?
Howie Nave (just kidding)
they don't need to give their name because they wrote they have actually done "more than fantasy" so I imagine since Peta was asked to get involved here they would be interested in that person who I guess might have sat on something? Every posting can tell which computer it came from to find out who put that up. I've been on here because of all the betrayals and lying I went through and for that its helped.
yeah, plus most ip addresses are not dedicated. If you tried to find out who I am, it would be narrowed down to someone with comcast.It would be good though if The Improv did a mental health check. I mean, that's just caring about their employees.
yep, about the improv, good idea & harveys, teh paper, radio station toothere is no point in ruining someone though do y'all really want to do that or do you want to protect otherseven if he has ruined many lives and it sounds like that, forgiveness is in the biblei say prevent it from happening to other gals by gettin the word out on the net on all those sites, has everyone done that? peta wont get involved, no proof, it is heresaydoes anyone know if there really is a nanc? or is that Howie? someone in tahoe must know, i live a bit away but not farmaybe jest maybe he will stop now, we know hes reading this right ladies? say what you want to him then here get it off yer chest then forgive and help others. that is the way i was raised as a christian, what do y'all think?
Goggle has nothing to do with this site because it's not on goggle.
Don't y'all think the person who said they did something more than fantasy should do the nobel thing and say what they did and who they are? Unless they were just exaggerating. But, computers are traceable anyway.
blogger is OWNED by googlei can see there are some big computer buffs hereso yes it is related to this sitejust read the terms of serviceand no the computers are not traceable, if you think that, you are not educated on IP addresses, i work in this fieldif you go to the help section of blogger you can read all about this, it is stated very clearly they are never releasedthere are even racist, klu klux clan and al quaida blogs and google has not released that informationgoogle (who YES owns blogger) never ever releases information about blog owners. who started this blog anyhow??i am not the one who posted about the fantasy thing, but why should the person do the noble thing? maybe it is private to them and that is their right. i am confused why you want the person's name? Is that Howie asking? Or someone who wants it for peta or what is your point
This really isn't about forgiveness which I am all for. It is about trying to protect future women from being sucked in and to getting help for someone who is mentally ill.I don't believe Howie is capable of learning a lesson and stopping. It is an addiction not a rational choice.The Improv has been informed. I am not at all hoping he gets fired, but perhaps someone with some authority may get him to seek treatment. I hope they don't dismiss this. If these fantasies are being acted out, I'd imagine some cruelity to animals legislation would cover it making it a crime. I'm just guessing.It would be noble for anyone involved to tell the police or the humane society but to post their names on a blog??? I don't think so.
I think some of you are going too far. I am all for protecting other people, but people don't get help unless they want to get help.I don't know who started this blog, but the person who started it can also delete it.I don't think telling his job was a good thing or right thing to do. This is not the kind of thing places of employment usually get involved with unless a fellow employee makes a complaint. They can't get involved with things like this legally nor should they. Come on, you have all said how you felt, you have exposed him on the internet. Do you want to ruin his life completely? That is just not right.No this is not Howie, and it isn't Nanc and I am someone upset with him too fbeing horrible to me. this is the other l, but I would never go as far as some of you are. Yell at me if you want, but I think its time for the blog to end. Give him a chance to try to do something about it on his own. He isn't a stupid person or totally unaware of his problems, I am sure of it. He might make jokes to hide behind but he is not all horrible. All of you wouldn't have talked to him for so long if that was true.Peta? His job? The police? Come on! It is one thing to say how you feel, report him on a dating site, but don't ruin the guys life completely. That is just vindictive! I follow the rule treat others how I would want to be treated. No he did not follow that rule for me, but it doesn't mean I go that level either and some of you have.
I think the entertainment industry is very forgiving about these sorts of things. In fact, if he owned up to this, sought treatment, he'd probably get it to work to his advantage to be honest. Especially the field of comedy. Howie has ruined his life himself not us. With a bit of pressure, maybe, but not likely, he might get some help.You are too nice, but your heart in also in the right place.But I agree, there isn't much else that I need to say.
Yup, that OJish book was a bad idea, but after rehab??? think of all the new material.
yeah, and that's going to happen.
i think I know who started this blog and her name starts with LINDand she lives in TahoeShe can easily delete the blog, can't she? Go for it LINDRehab for what? men who like girls who sit on mice? Is there a special rehab facility for that?
there are lots of kooky comics out there and no one cares in that biz
this blog helped me. it needs to stay. it might help someone else one day too.
There probably women out there writing who still have no idea.
I don't get how some of you want to call peta or whatever because the part howie did that was awful is the lying and deception that we were 'the only one' he talked about his fantasies. But we all apparently went along with the ideas and wrote to him about the fantasies. And, like some of you, I would stay online for hours getting pretty kinky with the guy and am embarassed to find out many people wrote the same thing to him. and like "the other L" , I don't understand a desire to tell people what we wrote to him because if peta or whatever was interested in that they'd be interested in what I wrote too (and everyone else) and that would be embarassing ! I feel foolish now to think how carried away I would get with him, and like I've posted before, I really don't even understand myself now why I would do that for hours on end, but since he wasn't too interested in doing much of anything in person, online we could at least talk sexy. Sometimes I would write by myself at home and just send him a 'story' about our 'next adventure,' so I can't blame that on him, and don't yell at me either, I just see that I wrote just as crazy as he did. It just hurt to find out he was writing so many others too.
Maybe whoever called PETA thought it was just fantasy and found out it wasn't and cares about animals.
Seriously don't think PETA is going to bother with this.
the sickest thing is the lying and using people and manipulating people this waysome of us did have in person relationships with him and had no idea he was doing all of this behind our backs at the same timethis is all abusive and sick and people need to be warned, but I don't think peta or his job will do anythingwhat the hell is wrong with a man who does this to so many people and doesnt CARE EVEN ONE TINY BIT that people get seriously hurt like this, that is the sick partlook how many upset hurt people there are here and the stories are abuse and cruel and selfishu should all pity him because he cant have a reeal relationshipthis nancy or whomever is HIM talking. if he had a real girlfriend, wouldnt all of tahoe know about it? we see him all the timethat is just bs, if she is real i pity her, because all this is real and he probably still is chatting up a stormand even if he doesnt do the animal thing (who knows) he gets off on it, right? thats very sick, he needs mental health help
http://www.co.el-dorado.ca.us/mentalhealth/El Dorado County Department of Mental Health John Bachman, PhDDirector344 Placerville DrivePlacerville, California 95667(530) 621-6200
to who wrote, "he gets off on it, right", didn't we too? that's where I'm not upset at him, I'm mad at myself for getting carried away online and if you guys even knew some of the things we wrote about you'd probably think I was off my rocker too. But for him, i am angry that the things he wrote and talked about to me he did with others kind of exactly. The 'movie idea' Lisa S posted, I got something like that too. What I thought was sexy & 'off the wall" with him, and just ours, was not. Kind of like finding out a guy you're sleeping with is sleeping with everyone else, only in his case it was this stuff.
i myself never got off on the crushed animals, i found it disgusting and crazy; are you saying you got off on that? you would be howie's perfect lifetime partner if you did. i am surprised u didnt do it in person if you liked this so muchi got off on the excitement of the moment, the intensity of the whole thing, the fact that was just ours or so i thought, i didn't know i was being usedbut i never thought crushing mice under high heel shoes or my butt or other crushing or sitting on creatures was exciting at all, nor did i like the glass table or crushing kitties, i am not trying to get down on you but if that stuff turns you on too, maybe you need some help, it is not normal to get off on killing animals, sorry, i am not a susie q and to me even bondage,porn and 3somes are more normal than that!, that is just sick i thinki did not like either finding out he was sharing this stuff w/everyone else, the turn on for me was that he didn't tell anyone else supposedly, it was special between us supposedly, those things were lies and were said to manipulate medont you feel manipulated? do others feel used and manipulated? did anyone else actually get off on killing animals? this isnt a fetish like lingerie and high heel shoes and victoria secrets underwear, most any person, even eccentric ones would say this is disturbedi am mad at myself for doing this sick talk with him and we never met in person, and i wanted to too, but he had a way of making you feel special, like why is this person telling me all this in confidence, now i know it is a head game, mental manipulation and it is cruel and sick now that we know he was doing it wtit all of us at the same timethank goodness for this blog or i would not have known and might have kept goingare people still chatting with him even knowing this. if anyone is doing that,and if i think of it again myself, i am going to go to a counselor because something is wrong with me that i don't think i should have betterwe were just free email whores
i'm the one who wrote that we both 'got off' on all the writing. In response to the last poster, I, like many others on here, and like Lisa S and the "other one," got the same "movie idea" msg from him and it's about the fetish ideas and we all wrote about the same things, and got carried away with whatever our writing took the conversation. I never thought about actually doing any of it, did any others? I could write the sexual conversations and he and i and i guess all the others on here who are mad at him for talking about the fetish stuff... we probablly all felt similarly meaning, the writing was intense. In person we hardly talked about except to say sometimes "want to meet online later." but, i had no idea he was writing the same as others. I'm tired of being upset though, I need to stop going on here; I might agree with "other lisa" and some of what she wrote last time.
You know, for the first time today I really came to appreciate just how nice this guy in my office who likes me has always been to me.He's genuinely nice, really decent, remembers my birthday, askes me how my weekend was and listens!
nice for youthere is a big diff between a narcissist and a normal guy, eh?not all guys lie like mad and then use as an excuse, well gee, all guys lie c'mon ladies!bullshitgood of you. keep noticing him. girls, all of us should consider why we continued even after knowing there was lying going on, i kept hoping it wasn't true, who would do such a thing, i had blinders on
Okay, I am trying not to post, but I can't resist. Why did I write???Here's my email to Howie from 6/10. We started writing on 5/11"This whole email situation between us and the match.com ad you have up in general reminds me of a spoof Spy Magazine did in the 80’s, or maybe 90’s where they registered a business, opened up a bank account and printed up some stationary all with a name of some magazine clearing house.Then, they sent refund checks out to various celebrities for a low amount, like $3.27 with a letter explaining the check was for overpayment for some magazine they subscribed to. They then noted who would go through the trouble of actually signing the check and depositing it. This was done with successively lower amounts over a number of months until finally a refund check was sent for one cent and Donald Trump was the only guy who bothered to cash it. Others dropped out a $1.25 or 50¢ etc. or in the first instance.Well, I guess I have hung in for the 1¢ check, because, well, it is just too funny! Who would place and ad for a brainiac and bore them to death! It’s darkly funny in and of itself. Hey, I’m in!!!! Of course I don’t mean to offend you, and I truly do like to read your film reviews and the xo’s have been nice company along with this keyboard. What else can I say? I must surely win a prize, no?"Probably explains my lack of endearing comments on my postcard from Montreal!!! hahahaReally, the whole thing was so bizzare I could only see it out.Lisa S
This blog has actually helped me alot too btw. Because the whole situation with Howie was just so totally bizzare. I actually figured he was gay and that the stories about the mice were meant to repel women, so of course, me being me, I had to go along.In fact, I rather dared him to do it. Because I thought he never would. But maybe he just wouldn't with me due to my personality.I've learned alot too by all your posts. I am grateful. I have a much clearer understanding of what I was involved in now that I have the big picture. Lisa S
the timing of your correspondence is quite interesting to me and not surprisingwish i could elaborate but i can't!! I wish I could actually talk to many of you off this blog, but oh wellIt is better to move on....
Lisa, I've set of a temp email account that I can dump later if you want to get in touch... it is firstname.lastname@example.orgYou sound like a really nice person who needs to talk.Lisa S
See, no one else has anything to say so the blog has run it course.As I said earlier, I think it should be deleted now. Do you want a permanent record on the internet of things you said in anger? I don't. I wish I would not have put my name on a few things and I am asking the person who started it to delete it. I am sorry I wrote my story in anger and wish it wasn't on here.I know some think others need to be warned but what if what is on here is also a ton of exaggeration which happens when people are upset. The main thing was the lying, we thought we were the only one, the lying, the lying. The dishonesty, the selfishness, being misled, be played with, Right?Can't that be said on the other dating sites without all the animal stuff, the craziness, etc?The other lotherwise there i not much else to say.....
I was reading about narcissitic people and the thing to do to drive them crazy is to not give them all the attention they seek. All of the emails and this post could actually be giving into whatever he wants. I even was dumb enough (according to what I've read) to send him messages whenever he got "busy" or started on one of his stretches of not being available, I would send him so many emails to ask what happened. Probably now, I see, it was what he wanted. I too, like "other L" said a bunch of things on here that were because I was so angry about stuff. But, now I realize the problem was way more than about me, it's an issue he has that he could change if he wants to. I won't settle for this kind of thing any more, would have more fun and passion with a guy who is interested in physical things, not just emailing and a guy who I can count on, trust.I suppose other women will run across this blog someday and here and there, maybe that will save them from wasting too much time
what a change it would be to have someone you could trust, don't you think?someone kind? who cared about you and not themselves..that is the way it should be, not emails.i agree it is way way more than just about us
+ you are right on the money, he could get help if he wantedwhy doesn't he do ya think? why doesn't he come on this website and say he is sorry for the hurt he caused, and why didn't he ever say it to me. wonder if he ever said it to anyone or if he just blamed themwe cant be the first people to say these things to him
I think the worst part of being (as someone put it) an "email whore," is that's exactly what we were, women who were used to make someone else feel good for the tine on line, (which actually probably enabled him in his issues and kept him from real relationships. And then, when the emails acheived their goal , he was done and gone. We were then left feeling, well, like an unpaid whore. we thought it meant more and then back on line he would come and we'd feel wanted? In person we were then expecting more , where those emails had taken us, to something close. Some of us got close to him, I did for a long time. But I've had to learn that I was avoiding 'real' life too, so why did I think emails were meaningful. I've seen the exact same sentences typed between people on this blog and me and Howie, meaning he sometimes just cut n pasted responses. which means those emails literally lacked meaning, why did I think they did ? When I would casually say, let's get together, and there would be so many excuses, I know now, he either was with his girlfriend or just had not much interest in anything in person. Inside I always knew I wanted more and I expected it to lead to more. I have to blame myself for that, and I do, what's wrong with me that I would sit online for hours on end emailing someone (well, I'm overweight and he said he liked that and 'big bottom'd girls' so I that was nice to hear. Now, I know he was just saying what overweight women rarely hear (if ever) that their size is desireable, and i know, being overweight it was amazingly good for my ego to think someone llike him wanted me for anything. I've been thinking alot about that since I've been reading all this. I know now that I was just hiding behind my computer dilusioning myself . in fact, I wonder if other women who ordinarily dont' have trouble dating would even tolerate an online - only (or barely) thing. I doubt it. but being in tahoe, and a friend of his, I felt part of his radio show when he played me a song or gave a shout out, or when I got in to see the show. And for a 'big girl' like me, it helped to hide how sad I am that most other guys don't give someone like me the time of day. yet , i see now how he keeping everything 'secret' only I thought we had something, being 'secret' emails , no one else knew. I was just delusioning myself so I think I need help too. there are men who would enjoy my company , in person, and I know there are men would would be happy to romance me and date me, more than emails. and i need to think about showing my kids how a good man would be interested in them too and I owe them that chance. Learning how many women (and there is likely many more who don't know about each other), is good for me to talk to myself anout how little I was willing to accept.
it isnt you, it is him, even if you have some problems of self esteem, most people do, some more than others, i think i know who you are. i live here too and i am just guessing but you are a nice gal, dont beat yourself up, we all want love and attentionfrom your writing, you have insight, you got help from a counselor right, which means you can change, this is good, we dont see that with him in person, in email or anywhere, has anyone seen this, i never have in 4 yearsdoes he really have a girlfriend really? seems several of us thought we were a girlfriend too and did not know what was truly in real life going on. she doesn't either if she does exist. someone asked on here does she really exist and not one person in tahoe has said yes definitely on this siteif she does, they cant really be too close can they. you cant be close to someone who is a liar and a narcisstic. i betcha if she is real, what is going on is mostly about him, and a cover up too,if you are really close to someone really they dont lie this big now, do they, meaning now that u know all this, how close were you really? and look what she wrote if that was not howie. it was all defense of him based on lies, so what does that say? i am wonderin for those who wrote peta or his job if you heard anything or not
i don't know about anyone else or peta, but when I talked to a group up here they were more interested in who was writing to him about the things they wanted to do, sitting and stuff. in fact, the person i talked to was kind of rude.and I do know about his 'girlfriend,' I've seen her with him a bunch of times and I think she knows who I am but i don't think she knew we were emailing. I used to hate her and then feel sorry for her, i kinda felt bad emailing him when I knew about her, but figured oh well, i liked being his 'secret'. now I know I wasn't his only secret.
she sounded silly and chilly if that was really her and not him writing, she doesn't have much upstairs to say what she did heremaybe that is what he wants though so he can pretend there is nothing wrong with him, look at me ma, look at me world! i have a girlfriend, i can do it world i nothin wrong with memaybe soon the wedding announcement will show up in the paper soon; i'll be lookin for it with a smile on my face
Yeah, a part-time girl for Christmas I guess.
a part time girl for Christmas?but we have been spending every weekend together since last fall and we talk every day almostthat isnt a part time girlstop villifying me. i know what you are all up to and it is to break us up
A part-time girl for Christmas. That triggered something. What does that mean?
a part-time girl for christmas is song of howie's. my computer friend said the last 3 or 4 postings came from the same compute so someone is on here pretending to be different people. Please don't do tht, people on here have been sharng their issues and hearts, it's not right for you to pretend to be different people.
You are correct but not quite. I posted about the part time girl, as well as the question. But it was meant for nanc to answer. Sorry that wasn't clear.
How can you friend tell this?Blogger does not give out IP addresses.Only the owner of a blog has access to this information so you must be the owner of the blog which means you can delete it.
Well, the information is inaccurate anyway. I did post the comment about the part time girl and the question because I think it is an excellent opportunity for nanc or howie, take your pick, to explain the meaning of the song and how it might relate to the situation at hand. It provoked a response, so I'm guessing it hit a nerve. That's it for me here!
it sure did hit a nerveyes indeedymakes me kinda wonder who truly started this internet site, and what they were after, maybe to find out if they really were the only one, a test of sorts
i said the postings came from the same computer because my friend said he can tell , i don't know if it's because of an 'ip' address or what but he's kind of a computer geek hacker so i figured that's what he meant, but i did't start this site i wouldn' mind someone taking it down thoughi do know the song though and i think Howie wrote it or its on his cd, i've definately herd it before.
i don't believe your friend can hack into blogger. i work in computers i asked around my geeky friends too, read the blogger stuff and they all say no wayplus your geek was wrong according to the last personabout fakers, well you arent signing your name. what do you expect. who can tell your post from another i think the comment about villfiy and part time girl was sarcastic not faking anyhow, and also true,she is a short timer like everyone else, and if she thinks differently, she needs to open her eyes. you cant know someone in six months or a year, we all know that. especially if they have lied to u, if she believes he hasn't lied, there is a real problem there upstairs, i dont know her but she thought the blog was about her so what does that say about her. another narcisssti wouldnt waste your time guessing who is faking or not
He's such a jerk ! I called the radio station today just to find out how he's doing because of all this, and he called me the "C" word and hung up. I was just trying to be nice to himn and that's the thanks I get! I even tried calling the comedy club because I really am worried about how he's doing but the operator wouldn't put me through. I guess he's not wanting to talk about it, but I think he should. I even pretended to be "nancy" but the operator said she knew Nancy and I didn't sound like her, maybe 'she' really does exist afterall (I don't know, I don't live in tahoe). I have flown out to visit him a few times and he wouldn't even speak to me, acted like he didn't know me, what a jerk.
to the person who last posted, I agree he is a jerk, but why are you calling him ? and especially 'pretending' to be someone else just to get him on the phone? I'm sorry to say this, but it sounds like you don't want to let go. It doesn't make sense to me why anyone who posted on here would ever email him again, I mean, why would you be trying to find out "how he is?" You must still want to chat with him? Yet you are posting here? That kind of makes me mad, like you are using this site to get to him when we've been HURT deeply by this guy and none of us want anything to do with him for all the damage he's done. You might have want to think about your own issues and why you'd try to get him to talk to you after all this... sorry to sound harsh but think about it.
I agree. Why would you do something so self-destructive. Plus it is a violation of his privacy. It is harassment as well.No matter how mad I ever was at him, I never called him at his job even once. It would never even enter my mind and I agree with the last poster that you better look at your own issues. I have emailed him in anger, but someone can open emails or not.If he wants to talk to someone he will. I don't blame him for not trusting anyone right now. Hearing that, it makes me realize no matter what he did or what his problems may be, he does have "another side" of the story to start a blog over and that is not good. That just makes everyone look crazy.L
As a matter of fact, that post is so out there, I wonder if it is even real! I can't believe that someone would do that...Are you sure you are not trying to just stir the flames on here and make the people on here look a bit nuts?I am doing great at being away from this thing. Haven't been on here for a few days. Reading this now, I know I am doing the right thing!!!I think you are trying to make it look like people are harassing him (stalking him) and that is what this whole blog is about vs women he has hurt.What a joke. I can't imagine someone would call and pretend to be Nancy! That is ridiculous!L
to "L", and "cheryl" well I did call and I was just trying to get him to talk to me b/cuz he keeps ignoring all my emails and then I have to put a lot of information in the subject line just to make sure he reads it, but still he keeps ignoring me and I don't understand it, i didn't do anything wrong except to tell how this all makes me feel , but I am also a little concerned about how it's all affecting him. I didn't really "pretend"' to be nancy too much, I just tried using her name to get the operator to put my call through, but it probably does sound bad doesn't it? I don't like being ignored especially when I try and send messages and all I want to know is if he mad at me for posting all this stuff, he really shouldn't be, we just told how we felt. you're right though, I shouldn't do some of that.
he wants everyone to think that all the people writing on here are stalkers and nuts and nothing is wrong with him; what you are doing (if it is true) just validates that. good going! thank you on behalf of the ladies he has hurt so much and has been a total asshole too....
well, I am getting him back. wise up girls, there are ways to give the guy some pay-back he can see what lying feels like and the craziness it makes you feel
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