dear 'minniemouse' who started this thing please tell me how I can remove comments i don't want up here, I said things I regret since I exaggerated a lot.
why are you back tracking now the only gals who signed their names dont seem to be exaggerating so you are full of crap or u are chatting with Howie again and are feeling guilty. that is sick
more lies
or maybe you are Howie or his stupid freind, covering his tracks again trying to make it look like none of this is true
i know it is true, he asked me to sit on rats and other animals for sexual excitement and to smash them with my shoes. he lied to me, cheated, and manipulated and played with my feelings. all for himself. he is not a normal guy and he is not a nice one
or maybe u are just a liar on here to stir up the thing since it has been quiet
Given human nature and the real hurt Howie has caused I dare say it would not be unusal that there would be some exaggeration. I didn't get puppies and babies for example, but I too do verify the mice, rats, squishing, lies, attempts to manipulate my feelings for selfish desires.
I think it's probably honest women who don't want to exaggerate that want to clean this up a bit.
My proposal is, as soon as nanc (aka Howie) comes clean with her/his exaggerations, anyone else should too. Not that I'm the blog owner or that my opinion matters, but.......could be a plan B!!!
i'm really sorry my asking to remove my comments made someone upset. I didnt want to stir anything up and I don't have anything to do with him now or ever, I just was angry when I posted
Basically, I think Howie should call his doctor, show him this blog, tell him it's true and ask for help. But, I don't even think he has enough insight for that. And I don't know if the folks at the Improv or other employers have any sort of mental health checks for their employees. If they cared, they would. I doubt Howie would get help on his own.
That's sad for everyone.
I do think it is fair to say there is some exaggeration here, but the essence of this blog is that of truthful stories.
I fess up to the OJ's publisher comment. That Howie, in an email to me, said he was going to write a book about this in language strikingly similar to the post by "Nanc" really pissed me off. The reason being, as I was documenting all my dreams and coincidences I made sure to ask permission about what Howie felt comfortable with me including. And really the whole project wasn't about him anyway. The coincidences with him and that book just motivated me to get the project done but I made sure to accommodate his feelings.
We stopped writing just after Howie sent me this -
"I like sharing stuff with you but don't expect to see it in someone's book one day. I am glad you won't be mentionign the movie but would also like to keep things between us here just that-between us. It makes it difficult to share things knowing someone else is going to read them so if that be the case I'll be clammign up now." .......... sharing things someone else is going to read...... hum does that include "cut and pastes?"
But now he says he is going to write a book about this? Sounds more to me like a threat to those he lead down some dark paths who are potentially embarrassed about having their personal correspondence published, the very thing Howie was concerned about.
Well, that was it for me, all bets are off, any promises of confidentiality evaporated. Plus, and this also really irked me, was that I was told this movie story really early in the correspondence and not at a stage that I was willing to keep stories secret. What, I have a best friend for 15 years that I talk to all the time and some near stranger all of a sudden tells me something unsolicited and shortly thereafter tells me it's a secret? Am I supposed to be bound by this? Sorry, any consideration previously given was being overgenerous on my part.
Trying to change Howie is a complete waste of time, but I certainly will feel free to use the examples of his behaviour in my upcoming ethics class. His behaviour would undoubtedly fail the "if everyone behaved this way would it make for a good society" test. Hell, I might even write a book one day and this might make up 1/2 a chapter.
And no Howie, you don't have any photos of my butt, or embarrassing emails to hold over me and it’s morally repugnant to hold that threat of exposure over others.
I could write a book about bad dating experiences and Howie Nave would top the list. I have never met such a creep and now that I know more, he has to be stopped. He has no conscious, he is a liar, he is manipulative and he did also fantasize about smashing rats, puppies, hamsters, kitties, mice and babies-anything that could fit under my big butt was fair game. The grosser and gorier the better-juices, blood, guts and all. No exaggeration, it is the truth.
I dunno why you think there is exaggeration. What I read here is what happened with me.
And the part about "secrets" is manipulative. It was "private" he said-lots of chitty chat about things being private.
No more private for me either-i am writing a story about this for a magazine. i am a writer. The story is about men on the internet who lie.
Well, I hope you post a note when the article's published. It would be interesting to read. Think bigger too. There's got to be movie rights in this for someone!
what a movie, about a sad aging comedian who lies about his age thinking it will matter, he hates women because of the way his mom is so he screws ladies over on the internet; and maybe just maybe the whole problem is that is gay and wont accept it
was howie on last comic standing? he said he won and i see no record of it another lie?
What did you exaggerate if you don't mind explaining? I wouldn't feel bad if i were you honey. I am sure everything you said was the truth, but when you are mad you say it stronger, right?
What an asshole this guy is. The things written here are true from my dates with him.
I think he is insane. I think he is a a crazy nuts sociopath kind of insane. Not the good kind of insane some talented people are. This guy does not have much talent but he likes to tell everyone up here in town that he does doesn't he. If he is so darn talented, why is he stuck here doing the same for so long. He wants all the chicks to think he is a movie star but it didnt fool me.
The West Coast Report January 2006 - A Night @ The South Lake Tahoe Improv
The West Coast Report is back for 2006, and this time it’s covering the Improv in South Lake Tahoe. The Improv in Harvey’s hotel is a nice, 250 or so seat room, with a HUGE stage. I was awarded two free tickets for a show at the Improv due to my excessive gambling, so I took the opportunity to cash in on a Tuesday night performance, without any knowledge of the comics performing that night. Usually a weeknight would cost $25, and rightfully so (sarcasm), because this place had the best comics Lake Tahoe had to offer that week.
First up was the host, Howie Nave. Apparently ole Howie must be sucking someone’s dick on a regular basis, because he has the dedicated host gig. This dude defines hack. He sounds like a gay Bobby Slayton, and looks like an old fat Dave Coulier from Full House. This guy was atrocious. The guy brought a guitar onstage, which is all I need to say.
I dated this man and was engaged to him many years ago. An old friend just called me and told me about this site. I can see that he is sicker now then he was back then. He was very self-centered then and unhealthy back when. I am happily married to a wonderful, giving man, and reading these things, I most obviously made the right decision. You think by this age he would have gotten some help by now. He was always the "golden" boy to mom and girls in his life, and he needed attention, attention, attention. How sad he is still like this at 50 years of age. There is something satisfying to me reading this all however. Revenge can be sweet, even many years later.
Officially, yes, very. By unhealthy, I mean mental health. And no, not in 1993 it was years earlier than that, in the 80s. Was there another engagement in 1993? I haven't talked to him in years, nor do I care to. I suppose he lied to you Cheryl, like he does to everyone. He has a problem with lying and always did. You can blame his mother, and she is a factor in that he was spoiled, but it is never all the mother's fault.
There was a mention of an upcomming marriage for Howie in the Dr. Demento archives from around 1993 if I remember correctly, so I was curious. But really, I have no idea.
He told me he was engaged two times before the marriage. I even know the name of one and have seen her. When I asked him why it didn't work out, he said both of them couldn't "take it" any more. I didn't know what that meant, and I didn't ask. I don't know if any of this is true since now I have found out so much of what he said to me was lies. He also told me he won Last Comic Standing, and I don't think that is true. I have looked it up and I can't find it anywhere and you would think that would be a huge deal to boost someone's career.
By the way, I do think he is talented. He might be a horrible person to be involved with, but he does have great assets. How would he draw such incredible women to him otherwise? Too bad he doesn't see or care to change how messed up he is. To me, this is sad. I see him being exactly the same in 25 years at age 75, if he is still even alive.
he didn't win Last comic standing, he appeared in the first season and was selected to appear on the show and go to the next round.
Personally, I really don't care how many times he has been engaged or married in the last 25 years, I would suspect he would be hooked up a few times.
I spoke to him recently (email) due to the fires, and he's ok. Honestly, I lve in tahoe and we've all been through so much this past week, he actually (as hard as this is to say) was a huge HUGE help to the community. He stayed on the air that first day forever, like 15 or 18 hours or something. He was so amazing and helpul to everyone, that I felt bad for all the bad things I had said/wrote.
i agree with the last posting, he has talents and gifts that are great, but also has the other side.
here's the thing I know he will always be someone who uses everyone - even during the fire, sorry "cheryl" but he will probably use the fire to get publicity. He's been emailing me and writng me all this time and I never let on that I know about this site. He writes "xoxoxo" on every email even though I heard him on his radio show recenty talk about having a girlfriend and I felt sorry for her when I know he's just using her to get people to think he's "normal guy," but he's not.
He even belittles some of the women who write him, I guess some of them have said they know about this blog and he jokes with me how they still write him and talk about their kids and he has even copied some of what they put in their emails to him and sends it to me "see isn't this crazy, they still email me," ... some people write to him about aliens ? and their kids (he thinks that's hillarious since he hates kids) and some write to him and say "they won't write anymore," but they do. I guess he thinks its funny...
All of you still writing him, so am I.. maybe we should start our own club...
he wrote me also recently and started talking about the weird fantasy stuff again; i knew it wouldn't last, him not talking about it all
his girlfriend is dumb; she is a cover i agree; how do i know? cause i was a cover too once. what is so dumb about her is how she refuses to see what he is really like and thinks she is the only one. and she thought we were trying to break them up. which is so dumb, who cares
he'll never change; who cares that he was a good samaritan for a day. it is just an act . everything is an act with him. and for publicity i agree. his whole life is around 'look at me ma'
you said he belittles women? the truth is he hates women. comes back to ma ma i know it. i am sure he is gay and hasn't admitted it. he isnt normal sexually i wont go into details but he is NOT normal in that dept
ill play along with his dumb emails too, he doesnt know i know about this site either....i hate him so i'll get a kick from it for now and information
yes, still writing. yes, maybe he is even cutting and pasting my mails to you? i have kids so maybe he is talkin about me. he hates kids? he told me he liked kids. liar! would u post some examples please? id appreciate it
maybe he is assexual. he sure is not normal. there is kinky but this is not kinky. this is damn strange! we fooled around with me wearing a tight pair of shiny pants and he wanted to do everything thru the pants. i think he uses the pants for different gals too. he told me he bought the pants for me but they didnt look new. and i dont have the pants now so what does that say. i was to use them for our 'special times' he said he had to build up to the naked part. we had some naked but i wont go into details as it is too weird. he has problems lets say
ever met a man like this? and no stupid "girlfriend" (cover chick), i was not mad he didnt take me to bed. we have gone to bed, u arent the only one sugar, he even talks about you in the emails.
also everything he does is said or done for show in tahoe, he is phony phony phony phony phony
it is funny we both still write and he thinks we dont know about the blog. he'll read this and be trying to guess who it is
i know he reads this thing gals. he thinks it is all of us that have something wrong and that he has done nothing. you should know that... he laughs at all of us that is why i play with him still
Oh brother, he told me he bought me these shiny tight pants too. I never thought at the time he could be lying. This is just gross and weird. I am glad to have this guy out of my life and every time I check back here, I can't believe the stuff I read and mostly I can't believe I was so stupid.
What a jerk! I don't know why anyone would hate his current "girlfriend." Feel sorry for her!! I do.
oh i had the shiny pants too ! blue pair and black, he said they were his sisters and she had left them there. I kind of thought at the time he was lying but to think he had a bunch of us pose in the same pants ! yuck. ''
what else isthe 'same'? he signs all his emails to me xoxox too and sometimes xoxxoxoxo a ton of them. he must know we'd take that as special , could he be that manipulative?
we fooled around too, so i know what people mean about all that but to me that is too private for us to be posting about because its a problem but not part of him lying or using people. probably explains "why" he's not had a lasting relationship.
He told me that he bought them for me for the first time we were together.
I thought it was a bit strange at the time but now to know that others wore the same pants and that they weren't really a present! THAT IS GROSS! He wanted me to leave them at his house for the times I was there.
He even told me some elaborate story how he drove to Reno to get them.
Yes it is private about the problems he has but no one has gone into detail really. You said it is the reason why he doesn't have a lasting relationship, but I think it is much more serious than that.
I don't feel sorry for him because of any of his problems. I used to but screw him for all the lies and YES, he is that manipulative!!!
I have a friend who is a psychologist and when I told her all this stuff and showed her this blog-she said this is one sick sick sick guy-definitely narcisstic personality disorder and then some!
I get the xxooxooxo's too on my emails. Still get them. It is sickening!!! Why do I still write him is the question? Part of is is to just have the hard copies at this point. He has no idea I know about this blog and he would never ever be able to guess who this is. That gives me a sense of power knowing how he played with my heart and emotions for so long without caring one darn bit!!!
In letters to me, he makes fun of the ladies who write him!! He thinks he has done nothing wrong! He thinks that his fetishes are a normal kinky thing and part of being a comedian! They are sick!!
the last person who posted said you still write him and so did someone else and he has no idea you know about this blog? that's weird, doesn't he know that like everyone knows? well a lot of people anyway.
I don't think it's good idea you still write without telling him because then its kinda like you're manipulating him and becoming the same. Let's not go there we should be better than that. But it probably feels good to out-smart him after all the lying. He has no idea I know either, I'm sure of it. I test him by signing our emails with a little nickname we had for our chats.
I hope no one else had the same nickname ? I hate to ask but did any of you have a "name" , I always sign my emails with it. I really hope he didn't use the same names for all of us, that would suck.
What kind of name? yes, i have a pet name, another similar, sick
I don't think it is manipulative because I am not repeating what he says here. But you make a decent point, I dont ever want to stoop as low as he but this is a guy that lied to me , cheated me, played with my head and used me. For me to do a tiny bit of harmless manipulation is forgiveable in my Gods eyes
but i hate to tell you i have a pet name as well. this is too creepy, the pants, the xxoxoxox, the fantasies...yuck to all does he think we are all stupid? the sick thing is i think he does
It also mentions the glass table thing ""The most extreme thing I ever heard of was this guy in Utah somewhere," recalls publisher Jeff Vilencia. "He made a Plexiglass platform, and he would lie under it, and the prostitute or whatever would crush things for him. One thing he liked was to take a lizard and glue it down to the glass. Then he put the lizard's arms in the Christ position, and he would have her step on it while he masturbated under this glass platform."
Human sexuality is such a puzzle.
Here the link again in case the html one doesn't work http://www.kapelovitz.com/crunchtime.htm
we were talking about whether we had used the same names, before all that postings about crush stuff, which is old news talked about on this sie a long time ago, apparently we all got into the same fetish chat with him
but,back to what we were talking about.. did you use anything like CCQ, and that for you pet names with him?
howie wanted to take photos under the glass table and that is what got him off.... i would sit on it and he would stick things underneath-- mice, kities, puppies, hamsters...the excitedment was seeing the creature killed under my bum while he watched and took photos, not only did i sit and crush them but squiggle all over them with my privates....he said i was the only one he ever told this too and he made it up himself, when i told him this friggin weird, and maybe he should seek help, he told me it was normal, yet he never had a normal sex reaction if you know what i mean. he just would talk about all that garbage and not care what i needed or wanted. it was weird and i have met a lot of men
he's only an ass man because of the crushing it can do, not the normal stuff men like it for
so they call that the most extreme?
he made mw wear black tight pants , if they were the same pants, i will shoot the bastard, but i'll never know
how do all of you still write to him when he is such a monster. no wonder he thinks it is funny,
and hey why do u care so much if he used the same name or not, the guy is a pig whether he did or didnt man oh man, what a pig is right; he even looks like a pig. how he gets all these ladies is beyond me; what is so great about him? he is tubby and impotent from what i can see and a loser user to boot! stop writing him fools!
gee maybe this will happen to the sucker, someone should call peta since the movies are illegal and i be he is making them
Love Crushed Sex 1999 Darwin Award Nominee Confirmed True by Darwin (June 1999, Florida) Okeechobee County investigators believe the death of Bryan, 28, was related to his wife's habit of stomping rabbits and mice for sexual pleasure. Stephanie, 29, was sentenced to two years of probation and community service for the death of her husband Bryan, who was found in a pit with a board over his body, crushed beneath the rear wheel of his sports utility vehicle.
Stephanie did not deny that she drove over her husband, but in her own defence she released tapes to the police showing her stomping small mammals to death. She was identified by a cryptic tattoo on her lower leg.
Such "crush" videos are sold to people who derive sexual pleasure from the sight of death, especially at the hands of a woman. "It was abhorrent and cruel," said Assistant State Attorney Bernard Romero. "My first instinct was to seek the maximum penalty."
But Stephanie contended that she was an unwilling participant in the videos, and had been beaten many times by her husband prior to his bizarre death. Stephanie was charged in July with two counts of felony animal cruelty, which were later reduced to misdemeanors.
As for her husband, his death under the wheels of his car was presumably a loving sex act between consenting adults. But a man who would lie in a special pit while a woman he groomed for "crush" videos drove over him, shouldn't be surprised when he winds up holding a Darwin Award.
I was also told the blue pants were a "gift" what a jerk!!!!!!!! And he was impotent with me as well
I keep waiting for big Hilda (or was it Stephanie? Jane? Cheryl?) to come along and tell us off. whats her name-Hee hee hee. She is big Hilda to me....now she is a crusher! Maybe it is really the high heel of mom coming down?
we talked about it forever, but never did anything, i think it's weird if anyone did it, actually - but I think I'm weird for writing non stop for hours about it. and peta would be just as intersted in the person who did it , if they did it.
and I was a big mama crushing queen, sometimes, Cq for short
I had about six different crushing nick names with initials and I thought I invented all of them. I guess not, or he carried on with it after. I don't care much anymore. He is a complete loser, I mean come on! What a total loser! So what if he is some fun. He is pretty scary at the same time. I feel sorry for Big Hilda myself. That name cracks me up!!!
And I had the blue pants too!! He told me that he bought them for me. Every time I check back into this blog, I find something creepier about him.
Try a mother who is overbearing and emasculates her little boy. Or possibly one who dotes on him all the time to the point of nausea.
He told me about the glass table too and the whole excitement was after he would then turn it around and he was the one really being crushed by me and that was the excitement. Then.. !! Sex would finally happen! Whoa!
A shrink would have a hay day with Howie Nave and then probably lock him up. He can laugh at all of this and all of you who write him as much as we wants, but trust me this is one miserable guy who will never have a a truly good relationship last. It is truly pathetic.
The point of the whole fetish definition is that sexual arousal comes from the fetish itself, in Howie's case, the crushing act. So, it's not surprising that he would have little sexual response to mainstream hetrosexual or even mainstream homosexual opportunities.
The person who posted this says she had sex with him.. "He told me about the glass table too and the whole excitement was after he would then turn it around and he was the one really being crushed by me and that was the excitement. Then.. !! Sex would finally happen! Whoa!.
we got very carried away with our chatting, and looking back at those emails, it was me who wrote all about what "I" would do for him, I don't know how or why I got so into it, really, but I guess I liked the chatting.
I haven't talked to him in awhile though, anyone 'chatting' with him currently or heard from him recently?
someone said his talk on crushing being consistent. that is because this is a obsession for him. the fixation on huge behinds is related to it completely
did anyone else sit on his face? that is his other big fixation...he asked me to sit on his face. i felt funny and it did nothing for me gals! but i am ashamed to say i did it
it is all about him being crushed i see now
yes gals, this is all very personal for y'all but i dont feel bad ladies because i was manipulated and told i was the only one so to find out there are loads of you? loads of you wearing blue tight pants and with nicknames too. the part about kids bugs the crap out of me because he told me he loved kids so i talked about mine. all confidentiality goes out the window cuz of this lying gals....
Haven't others heard him say how much he hates kids? Why do you think he doesn't have any? It's a good thing anyway.
We got into kinky stuff, no crushing or anything gross like that, I really hope nobody ever did any of that , you'd be just as wrong as him if you did,
but I sat on his face, it was kind of fun at first, sexy a little but didn't lead to anything much. We met up a lot during the couple of years we were emailing.
Blue pants, me too. I guess I don't mind that too much. I once had a guy asked me to dress up as French maid, and he had the outfit too, and another guy liked it when I cleaned the house -- seems like guys have certain things they like? Weird. Why do we do what they ask? THAT'S the REAL question. I keep asking myself, why did I do stuff, wear the pants, let him take photos, sit on his face, I think I figured it would lead to fun sexy times and maybe if it did, I wouldn't think it was so odd. I don't think the french maid or cleaning lady guys are too off the wall.
I need to learn not to do everything they ask for, maybe that's the real lesson. If some guy wants to talk weird online I think I'll skip it next time, that's a warning sign for sure.
I wore the blue pants last year and the year before. I've emailed him recently. He said he missed chatting. He probably does from the sound of it if we've all stopped emailing him, wonder who he is talking to? some poor innocent soul who is probably right now typing away about things she thinks are gross and weird but she won't say thinking "He likes me." I'm mad that he thinks I'm such a fool.
i have dressed up plenty of time for men in french maid costumes, sexy lingerie, and more. I have pretended to be a hooker and have done lots of fantasy play. i am sorry but this is different. that was harmless and didnt hurt others or animals. i have never had a guy ask me to sit and crush animals and smash them with my butt before. it was a bad bad bad bad BAD BAD sign and i should have known better!
If a guy through internet is talking about weird stuff like this before you even meet them it is another bad sign. I knew better and I was stupid.
to the last person you sound like you feel sorry for him, i wouldn't, he has no shortage of girls i am sure since he is such a pathologic liar and he has his new girlfriend; he should be chatting with her and having her sit on his face..i hope she has the blue pants as well!
still no one has said they had sex with him and i am another one who didn't; bad bad bad sign when a guy can't or wont do anything after being with them a bunch of times, dome on ladies we know men! what guy doesn't touch you naked?. something is wrong there girls. red flag!! i wasnt mad, as the girlfriend suggested; it was WEIRD! WEIRD WEIRD WEIRD!
i dont feel sorry for him one bit. i hate him as a matter of fact. it is the only reason i read this blog anymore, i know it isn't good to hate but i do, he is an asshole plain and simple, if you give him a lot more credit that that , he is just manipulating again to make you think he is more than he is, he is an empty shell, only a complete dick would treat people like this sorry and than laugh at it after
didn't he write someone that he laughed at people who write him?
ANOTHER CRUSHING QUEEN, he is lucky he is not near me now; i'd do a lot more to him than sit on his head!
oh sorry to the last person, i misread what u said; you said you are mad he thinks you are a fool; i thought you were feeling sorry for him, i didn't mean to make that remark
i am mad too . furious! about the blue pants, the lying, the nicknames and MORE
Okay, I didn't post the comment about Howie laughing at other people but with some reluctance I will post the message I received from Howie when I wrote to him about this blog and his problem at the end of May.
I'm actually someone who does feel sorry for Howie, because I see that he is mentally ill and not at all intouch with reality. Never the less, it doesn't help anyone, to protect him from actions he may have little control over.
Here is his response to me when I recommened he see a doctor -
"Lisa, if you love me bunches why are you calling me a psychopath? I've engaged in online writing with women who were mutually interested. Like I said before they sent me pictures, in fact I think you even sent me a couple. I've sought legal advice about the blog and there is no concern because it was all mutual consenting and i have emails IMs, and pictures to prove it. What some call sick others call creative. And about the lying... what did i lie about? That i was interested in communicating with women, i was and they were. Were they exclusive? No. Is that news to women that men lie? In fact, how many women were lying to me and communicating with many men. I know one was married, several were dating other people and like I said I have all the proof to show they voluntarily reciprocated in this type of talk, are we "all" sick then? Hey, look, I'm a comic, I'm dark by nature and I know 100s of other comics that have kinky fetishes and what not. I'm not reading the blog and don't care, as I said before my girlfriend and I are actually working on a book about these types of things and it does not bother me. Oh and thanks for posting my song, what about my other song, "Working on Love" eh? Those lyrics say in part, "I don't know why love is such a pain in he ass," Like gas I wish it would pass...." so there are two sides to every coin, they need to move on."
The similarity between this letter and the "Nanc" comments leads me to believe Howie was the one posting as "Nanc."
There are many known psychological defenses humans have to protect us from the truth we would rather not know about ourselves, projection, denial, transference etc. And to someone so hardened and so empty, the truth really cannot penetrate.
Personally, I don't think psychologically Howie can see what the impact of his lies has had on those who have encountered him so, in a way it is hard for me to blame him. Never the less, I think this blog is extreamly valuable. For those hurt to vent, and realize they weren't the crazy ones and for others to be warned about what they may encounter.
Unlike Cheryl, I do not hope that Howie is okay. If he is okay, he will never have a chance at recovery. I'm always the optimist, and so I will post this completly irrational email from Howie, because I actually do care about him. Howie, you are not okay, this is not okay, you need to see a doctor before you hurt more people even if you don't see yet that this is happening.
YOU Howie, are the one who is unbelievable. Get some help.
to clarify, I never called Howie a psychopath. I don't think he is one nor do I think he is a sociopath. He seems to have a severe narcissistic personality disorder and an obsessive crush-fetish.
I know Howie doesn't have a girlfriend and i don't know people think he does because he continues to email me and he doesn't say a word about her, so if he did care about her wouldn't he say so and besides HE IS EMAILING and Flirting with me and so I think it's all crap. He sends me lots of emails so where is "she' anyway?
And all that stuff that lisa s. posted about what he said to her, sounds like him so I believe that, but I just don't know what all the emailing is about and why he knows about this blog and yet still does it ?
to the last person, the answer to your question is exactly what lisa s said, he really is mentally ill so of course he is sill writing you. and just because he doesn't mention a girlfriend to you hardly means he doesn't have one! don't you think?? come on!
if you email with him and do the fantasy stuff and continue it, then you are just enabling him in a way, the chatting, the fetish, it is almost like a drug to him i really think.
i am sorry that he is going through this but i agree with lisa s, he is never going to get help until he realizes that he needs it. the letter to her shows that he doesn't think he has done a thing. he is sick! that letter is disturbing!
it shows that he absolutely is void of insight, is in serious denial, has no empathy for anyone. he takes no responsibility for anything he has done to anyone, and he says he thinks his behavior and fetishes are all ok & normal... he said it all in black and white, right there for you all to see.
That letter is from a very sick and mentally ill person!
lisa s is right, the main purpose of this blog is for those who have been hurt by this to vent about it and also maybe to prevent someone new from going through what everyone here went through with him. If you keep talking with him, and then are hurt it is your own fault. Sorry!
the blog is NOT going to change him ... he doesn't want to change nor does he think he has to. READ THE LETTER he wrote Lisa S!!. he has obviously had really nice women involved with him and that made zero impact, that is not the answer. so those of you who might email or talk with him still hoping for that, you will only be let down. he really can't even be a friend, because everything is about him. so you are better off moving on and finding people in your life who are capable of caring about you too. i know it can be hard to do, he can fill a certain void i suppose if you are lonely, but it isn't real, he doesn't care how you really are, he isn't capable of that
i posted that we email, but I don't do any fantasy chat with him, i never have.. not the stuff you talk about. We are kind of like friends, but flirt a little in emails.
is he a real friend to you? what do you get out of it? no one is telling you what to do, i wrote that and it was meant more lots of people not just you
my point if he is treating you badly (and i am nor saying he is) or anyone badly why continue?
it was meant for everyone but if you want to know why he is emailing and flirting, the letter answers it for you. you obviously are interested in him or you wouldn't keep talking about why does he have a girlfriend. if he is just a friend, who cares?
I was Jewish crushing queen among 10 other names. I thought i was the one who started the naming. I started leaving stuff at the end of my emails 2 1/2 years ago or so and he said he never met anyone who did this. What a lie! Another major lie! I feel sick again knowing all this. The blue pants were supposedly a gift for me as well. Another lie! Knowing this makes me sick. Here is my message to Howie. I believe he does read this blog.
Howie, you totally betrayed me in so many ways. You may find it all funny, but it isn't. This blog exists solely because of YOU. It is YOUR FAULT! How you lie and treat people like this is beyond me. You are ill, that is clear. That letter you wrote to Lisa S is a sign of serious sickness and denial. I told you all I had gone through before I met you and you simply did not care. You only cared about yourself. You are beyond selfish! You are mean! And for that reason, I can't ever forgive you. I am close to saying I hate your guts but I just try to not have hate and I don't hate you. I still care about you as a matter of fact. But out of all the men I have EVER been involved with and there are quite a few on the list, you are clearly the meanest and the most messed up. I feel sorry for you more than anything else.
I remember how many times you told me I would end up hating you one day and I told you it would never happen no matter what, and look at this. You told me the compliments would stop someday and the only reason they did is because of you, the way you treat people who care about you. You are disturbed! There is something wrong with you. Admit it already and get some help!
I miss you in a way, but not the way you hurt me and treated me. You destroyed a good relationship. I WAS LOYAL to you and I cared about you and loved you. Your recent apology letter in the mail was hardly enough. Some emails and two weekend dates? MEAN! MEAN! MEAN! You BROKE MY HEART!!
Get some help!! Or when you are 60, this blog will still be here! How sad would that be for you. I know you are unhappy inside. Do something about it! And stop hurting other people and also alienating people who care about you.
I NEVER would have written one word on this blog if you hadn't accused me of writing things when I didn't and lied about me.
You got an apology letter from Howie in the mail? that is very surprising. He never said he was sorry to anyone I thought. I haven't heard from him in awhile and was upset about it until I found this blog and realized what might be going on. But an apology makes me wonder.
Yes I did, handwritten, four or five sentences. I was glad to get it and to get my belongings back after two years of asking him for them. I don't know if it is really "something." He probably hoped it would mean I wouldn't write anything on here. I have a lot of things that could be said in great detail that I haven't said a word about. I still won't. But is he really sorry? Did he ever really appreciate me and the time I put into him? I don't think so actually.
I am sorry I just wrote what I did on here. I have been not posting and not wanting to post. But when I saw the part about the blue tight pants and all the acronyms, I became furious again. I have moved on and in a way I am sorry the blog even exists because I can't resist checking back here, but then I get upset when I do.
What it comes down too is feeling so betrayed because you were flat out lied to so greatly and then he takes no real responsibility for it. For me to truly forgive him, I'd love to see him getting some help for himself in an honest way.
I actually do care about him even though I can't ever trust him again or have anything to do with him. I used to write him still trying but he really doesn't want real friends. He wants superficial chatting because then he doesn't have to deal.
But I am sorry I just went off again. I am just emotional and reading about the pants and those acronyms!!!! I feel so fucking used!! It is just a very creepy and icky feeling when you honestly cared about a person to find later on how many lies there were....
I would guess that you would have needed to sign in with a username and password when you originally posted in order to remove a post. I don't think people who post anonymously have that same ability. It's just a guess.
that's ok, i went to the link from YarnB - and saw that it's one of the Lisa's websites I guess with her own loggin and thats how you can post and remove.
lisa, YarnB you have a lot of nice knitting and stuff and its nice to put a name with a face and all. Yu are a good knitter ! If you guys want to see her knitting it's really good go to this link http://yarnbotanika.blogspot.com/
katherine, why did you have to put my website there, that is not right of you; i removed it on purpose!! I accidently posted with my google name. I removed it in two seconds,
Now my name and website are stuck on here permanently. that was really wrong of you and I am pissed off. Can you erase your post? Otherwise to be honest with you I feel I have to now delete my entire personal blog thanks to you.
i don't want people from this damn blog going to my own personal site what a crappy crappy thing you just did, maybe you didn't mean anything and I appreciate the compliments but that was REALLY wrong of you!!
You must be just sitting on this blog as the name YarnB was up for literally ONE SECOND! Katherine, please edit your post and take out my personal website! Now all my years of work on my own blog have to be erased because of your considerate posting. Don't you think if I wanted the upset up, I wouldn't have deleted the post? Thanks a lot!!
Lisa, YarnB is still on here, it wasn't on for two seconds, it's still there. All anyone has to do is click on the name, "YarnB" and they can go to your various sites and see all your yarn or kntting work. Why would you have to take that down?
Its still there?? I don't understand. I don't see it on internet explorer or on firefox. what browser are you using? I guess I don't have to take it down. I probably over reacted as usual but I want to stay away from this blog. I just am tired of the whole thing and it isn't important to my life right now. So I don't like the idea of people coming from here to there.... I preferred being anonymous even if I did sign my name.
Hi folks, It's fairly obvious that people who torture animals for their own sexual gratification are emotionally disturbed. These sociopaths have as much empathy for the women they use in their videos as they do for the animals being tortured -- both are just tools to satisfy their crush fetish.
Unfortunately, neither California or Nevada have passed laws prohibiting crush videos, but there is a Federal law that makes creation or possession of these videos a felony, if there is intent to profit from them.
If this is the case with Mr. Nave, notify your District Attorney's office. The law in question is "18 USC 48".
i wonder how this guy found this site? i read his page and it is creepy gals and it means that howie is in the extreme group. i asked him about bugs when he first told me this and he said they were not big enough so that tells you, the creature had to be mouse size or bigger and the guts of it is what he liked leaking out around the butt or the high heel pump shoe (shiny shoes by the way), not a stiletto because the heel was not big enough to stomp the mouse(his words ladies) he also did not think this is wrong morally so it shows something else big time. true we dont know if these things were done or only talked and written about nonstop but he wanted someone badly who wuld do them. he told me he HAD to find someone who liked it like he did. he was mad i didnt like but its gross! i bet he has at one time found someone cuz he sounded so determined;
from that page:
What's the big deal? So, they step on a few bugs! So what?
And when the "thrill" of tormenting those creatures fades, the hardcore crush fetishist moves on to more evolved animals that suffer more intensely and visibly: baby mice ("pinkies"), rats, guinea pigs, kittens, and dogs.
Empathizing with crustaceans and insects may be difficult, but few people are unable to see the evil in torturing and killing mice, cats and dogs. Those who cannot see the wrong in these acts are seriously out of touch with their conscience.
Are these people a danger to those around them?
Quite possibly. There is a well-documented link between violence against animals and violence against human beings. Animal cruelty is in the history of a majority of serial killers, rapists, and spouse/child abusers.
Consider that one who abuses animals lacks empathy. Is the transition from torturing a helpless cat to torturing a helpless baby all that great?
I truly can’t believe people are posting such unbelievable things on this site. This is Howie’s girlfriend. I know, I said I wasn’t going to ever post here again but this has gotten out of hand.
A recent posting by a Lisa who was upset about a link to her website tells it all. Why is it ok for people to post “anonymously” and write anything you want to without regard to the impact on anyone yet, you Howie’s name and entire life is posted? Lisa doesn’t want the link to all her pages and I can understand that – it’s unnerving. Lisa, like most people doesn’t like her privacy being exposed; yet people are writing whatever they want to on here? Some postings make fun of me, call me names, and even belittle whether or not I exist. Well I do and frankly, I’m pretty upset at this point.
If you wanted to hurt and impact Howie’s life, you have. Mission accomplished. You’ve hurt us both and his family and you’d probably say you don’t care and I suppose you don’t. But, why should any of you receive anonymity while Howie does not receive the same, especially with the extremes of what is posted?
Here’s the “real story” if any of you care to know the truth, here it is. And if you don’t care, that’s fine, my family cares. Howie and I live together. We have a normal life of working, shopping, time off and plain old life. We have a regular real relationship, with regular normal activities.
When Howie and I first started dating more than a year ago, of course I knew he was on Match.com and probably other sites. I also knew he dated several people. But, I think that’s what dating is about, dating several until you choose to be exclusive. Eventually, we did. At that point several women in town literally did start harassing me and him to a frightening extent. I can not begin to tell you the extremes some women have gone to I have been very scared of a couple of what a couple of people have done to us, it’s not a joke and not something I take lightly; endless phone calls, following me, harassing, threatening to the point of telling me they hope our house burns down. We have restraining orders for a reason and it is quite literally scary.
I am not posting here to defend or explain anything Howie may or may not have emailed or said to anyone. But, I’m also not going to let all the accusations on here stand without someone at least posting the truth about our lives, the way Howie is with me, and need it be said that I haven’t done anything like some of you said Howie wants. We do not do weird things to anyone or anything. We’re busy; he works, I work, we watch movies and talk and bike and play with our dog and do all the other normal things people do.
I wonder how some of you would like to have the same treatment you are giving both Howie and myself. I would bet some of you have hurt men in your lives, I know I have. But, I’m sure none of you would want a site like this one about yourselves in which men are free to evaluate your sexual prowess or the fantasies you had and or whether or not you were emotionally and psychologically balanced and where you worked and lived. I know I wouldn’t like it and I’m sure my ex’s would have plenty to say about their perspective of our relationship.
Point is, the things some of your postings are NOT harmless to our lives or our families. I presume you don’t care about that though and I’m not posting this to convince you of anything, I’m posting so there will at least be some truth of who Howie is and who he is to me which is good, decent, loving and caring. He’s not perfect (is any guy?) but he by far a long shot away from being a psychopath. Most importantly he doesn’t deserve all this.
And maybe I didn’t say everything just perfect here, but you don’t know me, you don’t live with us, some of you never even met Howie yet you write as the authority figure on analyzing him from his songs to his sexual orientation?
To go further and post accusations of possible child abuse, especially under the guise of anonymity, has got to be slanderous as much as it is bizarre.
If any of you slander me or publicly accuse me of engaging in actions with Howie for which you have ZERO information or evidence to support then be prepared for a public response and any legal action I can puruse.
nancy, there is something wrong with you in a serious way. that is why women must have done the things you say on here. i think you are in a thick thick and sick denial and i dont believe you live a normal life with howie. if you really think that anyone on earth believes that, you ought to commit yourself along with him to the closest mental hospital
accused of child abuse? what are you talking about. no one did that on here that i saw
i dont know you but i do know howie and you do not have a normal relationship with him. the fact that you think you does makes me realize how ill you are
it is frightening that you choose to blow all this off, just frightening that you are so foolish and dense
nancy, did you ever for a second thing that maybe women said things to you for REAL reasons, for good reasons? you are joking and lying to yourself if you think it is not true. seriously joking yourself
it is too bad you were harrassed but you can't be too bright to ignore what hundreds of women on here are saying and what people in tahoe are saying to you. do you seriously think it is all because they want Howie. THINK ABOUT IT NANCY, use your brain. they don't, we don't, want him!! the blog is to warn people just like you, but you are the ultimate fool!
what makes you think that you are so right and we are all so wrong, we are all insane but you aren't? is that really what you think? do you honestly think that you know him better than others who who have known him for years? how can you think that? it is just stupid!!
the fact that u come on and defend him says everything about you
thank goodness people tried to warn you is what i say
about blogs being anonymous of course they are anon and what you dont seem to get is that howie has done some seriously and wrong things that have a lot more to do than dating and breaking up with people
you act you have have some normal love story but that is a lie
he is still emailing women and chatting with them, what is wrong with you? are you so blind to put all your faith in one person who has hurt so many people, and you know he talked to you about all this fetish stuff nancy, you know he did, it is not a lie,
did you ever hear about codependant women or women who stay with crazy men-that is what u sound like and i hope your family can talk some sense into you
now you live with howie and a month ago u saw each other every weekend, he has the perfect cover for his sickness. someday nancy you will look back on all of this like many of us did and you will say to yourself why the hell was i so stupid! why did not listen to all the people who were trying to warn me
you will, and you will remember this blog post then, because if you think you will be living happily ever after in a normal relationship with him, you are truly screwed up and without much self esteem as well
NANCY, Blogs ARE ANONYMOUS. That is their whole nature. That is the whole point of the internet. It is silly to think that people will post their names. And even if they did, so what? It wouldn't change anything and you keep making a big deal of that.
What you are not recognizing at all is that maybe Howie caused this himself because of the way he treated numerous women.
Do you think that is a remote possibility?????
Lots of men have been jerks to women but don't have a blog put together about them to warn women. None of my ex's have a blog about them...do yours?
And no I wouldn't want a blog about me but I have never done things like Howie has done to men in my life. Ever! And no I don't think most women have. Not to this degree, not this many lies. How can you defend all this so casually? I agree you sound in denial completely.
This is all Howie's fault, not the women he has mistreated.
You act like you want all of us to feel sorry for you and even more for Howie but why should we? He seemes to have no regard for anyone but himself. I was HAPPY to find this blog to realize that it just wasn't me that was treated like absolute crap. Don't you have any respect for a single woman on here who has said anything? There are obviously some smart and nice women who have posted on here. The question should be why don't you have one ounce of respect for any of the woman who have posted here Nancy.
You keep acting like it was normal dating behavior on his part and it simply wasn't!
I was going to sign my name but I won't. It is a blog. I am allowed to be anonymous if I want.
Nanc, the line "Consider that one who abuses animals lacks empathy. Is the transition from torturing a helpless cat to torturing a helpless baby all that great?" was a quote from John Doppler Schiff's site that had information on the crush fetish phenomena in general, it wasn't an accusation leveled against Howie.
Unless you know something we don't, I wouldn't worry about it.
I'm sorry you are being harrassed. For anyone who reads this blog and is upset please do not harrass this happy couple.
Part of this conversation here is to help those of us who had been lied to and manipulated during our relationship with Howie so we can figure out just what the hell it was we were involved in and what the actual truth of what went on really was. Some of us obviously need that.
Being talked about in a negative way is a natural consequence that follows from being a pathalogical lier.
Nanc, torturing animals is a CRIME. Your "normal" boyfriend tried to lure me into criminal activities. I have proof I'd be happy to show in court should the need arise.
as many of you have said, You don't know me, you don't know anytbing about Howie or how he is with me or our life together - that you are right about. To call me sick or nuts or whatever - someone you don't even know! It's truly amazing
Again, "anonymous" convenience to hide behind. Interesting you don't reveal your name
We're heading out for a lovely evening, hope you do the same.
again "anonymous" (for now), how convenient. Again, since you don't live with us you don't know our lives you are no authority on Howie or myself. It shows a lack of mature thinking to presume you can claim to know someone you don't. And, you don't.
Did you know, Howie and I had a romantic evening on the lake, boating, Bbq, champagne and strawberries. I love that none of you know what Howie can do with champagne and strawberries or you just haven't said the good stuff on here. No, you don't know that, you don't know how we just live normal lives, doing normal stuff. You actually posted that I "don't" or couldn't possibly live a normal life ? Don't you at least know that sounds ridiculous trying to state as a fact what MY life is? It would be just as ridiculous for me to state as fact something about your life.
--- your posts speak for themselves, you've shown a lack of responsibility because any email or communication for which you clicked "send" and sent to Howie (or anyone else for that matter), was of your own free will and you know that. some women (some of you included) would send Howie very risque' emails! some sent pictures of themselves all dressed up in tight pants, high heels and so on, yet you take no responsibility for that and seem to blame Howie for enjoying that or whatever else you said and did.
and, like I wrote yesterday, I am not on here to make a judgement abotu the types of emails and things you did or sent to howie; like you, I'm talking about MY experiences with Howie for which you don't know anything about.
I was with Howie time and time again when Lindz would send Howie IM (Instant messages) saying "please Howie come have sex with me RIGHT NOW), she sent them over and over again of her own free will. I saw her write, "come take advantage of me right now." She would beg him to go out somewhere with her and she send him so many IMs he came up with other email accounts just so he could sign on and get his work done. Her postings on here making fun of Howie's kissing are unbelievable to say the least.
And numerous sexy emails between "other Lisa" and Howie are private and I'll leave it at that, but my understanding is that they both enjoyed whatever communicating they did. And Lisa S, who has never met Howie seems to act as an authority on his life over emails they both wrote willingly to each other and thinks you can analyze me the same ? There are a few other women who post on here whose name I didn't list before and they've backed off from emailing so I won't list them now. But "anonymous" is NOT ok for one side. You want to bash Howie's dating, go ahead, but calling him all the names, and me too, is wrong.
what's interesting, is that I have posted on here under other names or anonymous and you were COMPLIMENTARY towards me, compassionate and so on and yet, I was just posting to flush out your identies, which did help. I've posted all sorts of things just to show you eventually how ludicrioius this kind of thing can be. At least 50 postings are mine,
So, you can not figure out someone by limited information, espeically over emails, or a few visits, or here on this blog. So, am I the sweet person you liked in one posting or the other whom you can't believe is having a normal relationship with howie?
I'll tell you this, Howie is very different now that I live here and and live with him, than he was over the emails. In fact, very different. He has in the past few months he's opened up, come out of his shell, just like Lisa k was hoping he would, yes, he did. It's taken a lot of patience but , he's allowing himself to give and receive love better.
Lisa K, you loved him probably more than anyone, and I feel sad for that for you, I explained so much to Howie about what you might have gone through. one thing Howie didn't realize is that online communication feels different to different people. Some thought it meant a lot, others didn't. That's one of the problems with online/email chatting.
the internet has allowed zillions of people to create false identies, and personas all across the world. People find the anonynmity convenient way to hide their dark sides or create sites like this one hoping to hurt others.
I will continue to post things because who Howie is today, the person he is with me, the normal and satisfying and fun life we have together, deserves to be told. He is NOT PERFECT I'd never say that, I don't even know how long we'll be together, but he nor I are the psychos a few of you wish we were.
and I do have empathy for anyone who was hurt by any man or woman, and have posted that before. But, I've been hurt by men who lied and cheated on me, the most horrible feeling in the world. I explained to howie (because of this site) that the women he communicated with thought they were the only ones and so it felt like cheating on them, he understands that now.
Yes, I have sympathy/empathy, but don't you ? Howie has finally in a good healthy relationship, which you all said you wanted for him. And, if we aren't together in the future, he's learned a lot about champagne and stawberries (try it).
nanc it doesn't matter what you post here it's the boy who cried wolf syndrom. no one will believe anything that howie says anymore, real or not and your postings only reflect guilt by association.
Nanc, please do not discuss me in your posts. you really do not know anything about me. You are only hearing one side, and it is a very altered side I am sure.
And second do not feel sad for me. I don't feel sad at all. I am very happy now with Howie out of my life. I miss his humor and intelligence, but that is about it. I am sorry this blog exists because I don't want to read it but I still do. Also you can say or think whatever you want but it is clear to me that he has not been honest with you.
While I am glad Howie has met someone, your posts make me worry for him. You are not helping him one bit and isn't that what someone who truly loves you does. You are not coming across as a kind person in your posts here. I was hoping he would meet someone who would be great for him , someone that would not be worse for him and make him go farther into denial about his problems. I can see that hasn't happened at all.
By the way, I never hoped Howie would come out of his shell? I don't remember ever saying that or even thinking that. He wasn't in a shell when I spent time with him in person. So where you are getting that from I have absolutely no clue.
What worries me is you show zero humility or kindness in your posts towards others. Even your post to me was a put down. Your posts across as ice cold. Maybe you don't mean it, but sorry, that is how they sound. And what is worse, is every time you write something you don't help Howie, you make it worse for him. That is what really concerns me. Why are you doing that if you care for him the way you say you do? It doesn't seem to be very wise.
Also you are very far off the mark when it comes to me. Your post to me was not kind, it was a put down. Please do not discuss me. I am not on here talking about Howie except for the few posts I made where I signed my name. And do him a favor, and stop posting! Why can't he talk for himself! You talk about him as if he is a child. You sound so incredibly defensive and also you come across as callous and that does not help him. And I don't know you, and I don't care that you are with him and I honestly do not wish you harm. I don't!! But reading what you have written the past day, I REALLY don't think you have any idea how much worse you are making things for him. You should stop that!!
My hope for Howie has always been that be honest about who he is and get some help. You don't seem to be really helping that situation, and that really too bad. I also do not think him meeting one woman is going to magically change everything like you seem to think. You make it sound like meeting you has now made him a changed person. I don't believe it. It just is not that easy or simple to change . He doesn't even think he has problems based on the letter her wrote Lisa S.
Last night I was thinking if I were you, and really cared about Howie, what would I do if there was a blog like this. Would I believe the other women or believe him? I really think that I would not believe him. I hate to say it but it is true. I also would not be posting like you are. You hav cut down all these other women and defended him. I think you should maybe ask yourself what is really best for him and what would calm the blog down and stop people from talking. And instead you have chosen to say things that escalate the situation. Why? You are not helping him.
to the other l --dont let her bother you dear. your writings were nice and so is your website. she thinks naming names will stop people from writing but it only makes him/them look more guilty
guilty by association is right!
look how she talks about him : "now he understands" she said like 5 times as if he is a boy not a grown man . as if she had to teach him about the female race and now he is 'normal' because of her teachings. oh yes now he understands- my goodness!
if this man really wanted to stop the blog he can, he'd come on and say sorry i was wrong, h'ed apologize and be a man; he would not send a lady to speak for him how low is that. if nanc really wanted to stop it she could too. she wouldnt attack people and brag about her strawberries and boat rides
if she were my daughter i would be so ashamed of her!
nanc, leave these gals alone; you don't really know who said what; stop it is right! let your man stand up and be a man for G-d's sake! if he or you wanted to stop this you could, you are going about all wrong i agree, you sound like stupid spoiled children off in the night on a boat and laughing at women he mistreated
Howie didn't "send me here," again, you've no idea what you are talking about! he has never read rhis blog even though you'd like him to. You have no idea what we talk about and you've no idea what our relatinship is or isn't THAT IS MY POINT.
Lisa K asks me to please stop writing about her - isn't that unbelievable -- yet anyone feels free to write about me who I am or not and Howie, same thing?
I decided to come on here and become part of the conversation because why not? Strangers are talking about me and Howie and Howie's lilfe, for which I have a lot more knowledge of, seems like they've gone nuts analyzing his sexual orientation for a man I live with and have intimate relationship with.
There is much I would like to say and I could answer and explain to you about some very private, and extremely personal issues Howie has dealt with , with me, but that would be putting too much out here and while it might give you a glimpse into Howie's real true completely open and honest self. but I'm not going to share with people on here when I know some people are still 2-faced with him. Sending flirty, enticing emails yet coming on here to trash him.
You are still analyzing me saying why I doing this is to make you stop writing? I wrote the reason I'm posting IS NOT FOR YOU but to tell the truth about MY LIFE and by the way, my life with Howie is mine. of course, I knew you'd rip me to shreds for posting, but I am NOT WRITING to get your approval. And I'm not writing to come across as "nice" or someone whom you think is good for Howie.
I will continue to post a response frequently just consider me part of this blog now.
I told Howie last night that I finally posted a manifesto , yep, angry and all. it's my own free will to do what I want and I just won't be silent about the truth any more.
Lisa K, you say if this situation was yours and you were in my shoes , you would just believe everything posted. you don't know what you'd do, and whether its the same and what I'm doing or not, doesn't make your way the best. When Howie had a bad review, you wrote letters or emails or something defending the heck out of him, so I suspect you'd probably stick up for him here to some extent.
the reason I first starting posting under false persona was indeed to get more information to talk to Howie about. After months of listening and being part of your conversations, then talking with howie, and him opening up all his emails and so on, we did (as I posted earlier) have things to talk about and did. But, low and behold, Howie would get emails from the same people on here flirting and trying to entice him into online chatter again.
The girl from Donniville,(You've stopped emailing so I won't list your name) Lindz, R from Huntington, J from Tahoe would STILL flirt and be completely 2-faced. It was then I realized more about this blog. When I would post something untrue (oh he's still emailing me or other false personas) some of those people would reveal themselves and their intention to bring Howie down.
Of course, who can forget Gayle from Dracut, MA. Ladies, 10000000s of Ims emails and phone calls. She called the casino pretending to be me, she flew out here to see him while she posts under a variety of names here and bashes him, she sent so many cards and letters, IMs begging him to write her (minniemouse is one of her monikers by the way), she created more than 200 email accounts just to get around Howie's blocking her emails, so WHO PURSUED WHO? but, yet on here she trashes him. and so we called the dracut police got a lawyer and have had to put an end to her 2-faced communication,
So the lying on here is mutifaceted. Would you still not be angry? Well, I'm definately angry.
Then the harassment started, scary scary stuff. being followed nearly run off the road, coming to our house late at night, endless texting and calls. A restraining order was necessary.
So, Lisa K and anyone else, you don't know whether I'm nice or not, you see the end result of 9 months of patience now ended.
my posts make Howie look like a little kid? And you want him to look psychotic?
Anonymous? Not much longer, I will finish out your names and addresses if this continues. And i have a few more names. I should have posted them a long time ago, so that there is a level playing field. isn't that "fair?"
I think it would be more fair to post YOUR emails to Howie, not just the ones from him you've posted. Shall we? Would you like your friends and family to know how you desribed your sexual fantasies and the dark things YOU wanted to do ? Yeah, I think that's next. Who shall we start with?
Then Lisa S (Sinervo) can analyze your mental state of mind given the types of things you wrote about. That way she can help " figure out just what the hell it was [you] were involved in" since she is an expert in dream and conversation analysis especially with those she doesn't know.
only a coward would threaten others instead of coming clean
it is a typical abuser mentality if any of you have read about abusers. this is classic abuser talk here
just ignore it
we all have lots of emails too we could send to higher ups, newspapers or more or post too if we wanted to. no one has posted any of the sick ones here; the blog isnt about ruining howie or threatening anyone. it is to warn others and for talking about what some might have gone through
There is a better way out of this situation you find yourself in than seeking revenge. I discourage you doing it as much as I've discouraged anyone doing it to you.
You can be a different person and redeem yourself but not by hiding and telling more lies and being vengeful.
MinnieMouse has control over this blog and she is obviously not wanting you to look favourible. No doubt that is why she continues to let "nanc" post. Because every single one of the comments made by "nanc" or "nancy" make you look very bad.
If this were my blog, and it's not, I'd start restricting comments until approved if the main purportrator used it for vengeful purposes. Might not be fair, but that is the reality you face.
Choose the higher path Howie, there is a way out of this situation but it isn't going to be by bringing anyone down with you. Sometimes it is when you hit bottom that life begins.
You are so right ! All your posts speak for themselves, two-faced emailing Howie while trashing him here.
Cowards are those who post anonymously.
And once again, you post claiming I do not exist. I guess you figure it can't possibly be true that someone is in a relationship with Howie so it must be Howie using Nancy's name, which is not only not true, it's ludicrous as usual.
And now I'm an abuser? You wrote, this is "typical abuser mentality...classic abuser talk" So now I've abused someone and what do you have to back up that accusation?
You write, "the blog isnt about ruining howie or threatening anyone," - that's BS if there ever was any. This blog shows there really is "Nothing like a woman scorned."
Want to 'warn others?' here is a simple thing you can do, and it's really tough and difficult too, what you do is this: When you don't want to communicate with someone, don't. Don't click 'send,' when you don't want to write someone an email or if you don't like them, don't call or return calls to some guy you really don't like. Too hard to do?
As for me and Howie, the TRUTH is today was a nice day, out on the lake and then resting. We enjoyed dinner at our favorite place on the water and will be watching a movie in a little bit. It's not bragging silly girls, it's just reality.
This is NOT about revenge, Lisa S, again you seem to think you can analyze my mind. I will continue to correct false postings. My posts and they are mine alone, not Howie's, are about MY LIFE with him. "revenge" is about getting back at someone, not a state of mind I care about.
My postings are about telling what I know about Howie and isn't that the purpose of this site? I have dated him for over a year lived with him for many months now and I have a perspective on him too? But my experiences don't count because they are favorable?
It's so odd you want to restrict any favorable comments about Howie (calling those "vengeful!") and instead only allow people to post who will say negative things, that itself says all anyone who reads this all they need to know -- that this site is only for those who want to post hateful things.
Lisa writes, "Choose the higher path,...sometimes it is when you hit bottom that life begins." Is that what you're trying to do? To bring Howie down to a 'bottom state,' well choose the higher path Lisa for yourself and anyone else. It's not healthy or a "higher state" to be analyzing some guy you never met, or giving advice to people you don't know, or spending so much time (anyone) writing about a guy you once knew or dated or emailed or whatever.
Try living a higher life, full of grace and beauty, Take time out to relax and move past something from your past. And when you don't want to read anything here, don't. If you don't want to post, don't. If you don't want to talk to Howie, don't email or call him.
This is NOT about revenge, Lisa S, again you seem to think you can analyze my mind. I will continue to correct false postings. My posts and they are mine alone, not Howie's, are about MY LIFE with him. "revenge" is about getting back at someone, not a state of mind I care about.
My postings are about telling what I know about Howie and isn't that the purpose of this site? I have dated him for over a year lived with him for many months now and I have a perspective on him too? But my experiences don't count because they are favorable?
It's so odd you want to restrict any favorable comments about Howie (calling those "vengeful!") and instead only allow people to post who will say negative things, that itself says all anyone who reads this all they need to know -- that this site is only for those who want to post hateful things.
Lisa writes, "Choose the higher path,...sometimes it is when you hit bottom that life begins." Is that what you're trying to do? To bring Howie down to a 'bottom state,' well choose the higher path Lisa for yourself and anyone else. It's not healthy or a "higher state" to be analyzing some guy you never met, or giving advice to people you don't know, or spending so much time (anyone) writing about a guy you once knew or dated or emailed or whatever.
Try living a higher life, full of grace and beauty, Take time out to relax and move past something from your past. And when you don't want to read anything here, don't. If you don't want to post, don't. If you don't want to talk to Howie, don't email or call him.
Nanc or Howie, I don't think it would be good for anyone to post the actual graphic descriptions of the squishing of animals no matter who wrote about it.
I think there are many positive things to say about Howie which is why I left my favourable Amazon review of his talents online with my real name, for all to see.
howie, akda 'nanc', every rant and rave makes you look guilty and insane
you are trying to paint howie as this normal, great guy, if it is all the womens fault, for that you are enabling abuse and defending abuse (human & animal)& your ranting and raving makes him look more guilty
this says it all. this is a quote from the John Schiff site he wrote here.. the way you are posting about howie, your idyllic life , the lake, how wonderful it is is sick, sick, sick. it shows a lack of a conscious. a low moral compass, it shows an unempthetic and heartless mind; that is why no one believes it is a lady writing & why they think it is howie. or maybe howie has found another narcissist/sociopath. the perfect partner in sin. how perfect for him. many blessings but who the hell cares that you go to the lake
John Schiffs page says: "Empathizing with crustaceans and insects may be difficult, [b] but few people are unable to see the evil in torturing and killing mice, cats and dogs. Those who cannot see the wrong in these acts are seriously out of touch with their conscience." [b]
your postings howie/nanc only show that you are out of touch with your conscious as he says. you don't like being analyzed? tough shit. when you post so much info defensive heartless insane nonesense abut a man who has hurt tons of women, lied to many outright, who has knowingling and admittingly emailed and talked about stepping on and sitting on and squishing the guts out of kittens, puppies, mice and hamsters, if i were you, id shut the hell up and take the high road instead as she advises
if howie really has changed as y'all proclaim, all the letters and talk WILL STOP with time, but u should shut the hell up for now
TAKE THE HIGH ROAD is right
or you will have women sending their emails & letters from howie to public officials, newsppapers, jobs and more, this is not a threat, i have no such emails myself, but lots do from what i hear. it doesn't matter if they participated or not, who gives a darn damn, they are not the ones under scruitiny in the public eye! he still wrote he wanted women to sit on and squash the guts out of kittens,puppies, mice, hamsters, and more. he still lied and manipulated he told tons of ladies they were the only one, and in the other l's words treated them like crap, take the high road howie, apologize and then shut up!
lisa s is smart as hell in what she says.....
your mother should be ashamed of you is right. both of your mothers should.
ever hear the expression 'me thinks though dost protest too much?" that is how you sound
if you don't care about revenge, why are you outright threatening to post peoples names and addresses and telling them you will post their emails. Nancy, you ARE threatening these women. What happenes when you threaten a wild bird or upset animal? You ARE making things worse.
me thinks though dost protest too much" is very accurate!
you DO sound like someone without a conscious . and you do talk about howie as if you are emasculating him & you are educating him about life. it is tasteless & grotesque to mention all the lovely things you together to do women he has hurt. It is heartless and very very odd and strange. That alone shows you are lacking something in the heart department.
i think these women have much more on you then you have on them, take the high road
If you truly are a happy content and long term couple, this will die out over time but not if you threaten women and defend someone who REALLY HAS done a lot of bad and hurtful things. Not the way to go about it.. Get some help and live a quiet life.
we don't have an idyllic life. we have a regular life. I am not out of touch with anything people feel here, I am simply stating what my experiences are.
I don't understand why anyone could make any statements about my life and say as a statement of fact what it is and call me names, decide that I hav a mental illness because I am describing my life as it is, not what anyone else thinks it is.
Its like watching a movie and then at the end, someone tells me - this is what you life is, when i go home and know it's nothing like that. but someone wants me to say that is what it is. I am the one living it. that's where my anger comes from.
i have posted before and here again, I am NOT defending anyone, and couldn't defend anyone for something they said to someone else, I'm just posting what my experiences are and they are not the same, not at all.
I know your minniemouse from Dracut, MA very well. And when she gets ahold of you, she never lets go. Howie, I will email you one way or the other directly look for an email from me, there is much I could tell you. I am not commenting on the other things on here as it sounds like everyone is upset. But, I know G very well and she is not a stable person.
no offense William, but Howie nor I are very interested in getting into the stablity of anyone on here. we all have our own problems and I wouldn't want anyone (!) to go through what we are from old flames, or ex's, or others trying to share private things. you can email Howie if you want, but I'm focused here on just presenting the truth about my life or time with Howie and not about tearing down anyone else.
"nanc", the most important point is your experiences and opinions are biased by the newness your knowing him. one year is nothing. how old are you dear? i have known howie for many years, many, multiple years. i had the strawberries and champagne a few times at least, sorry to disappoint you
why can't howie talk for himself. are you his mother? he has said things around town and we know he reads this. bullshit he doesn't care, he reads it!
in the time i have known him, he has told me all kinds of conflicting stories about various ladies, much of which i found out later turned out to be outright lies. he has never been faithful to any woman, not one woman, ever "Nanc", not ever his entire life, EVER! just ask him "nanc". you are astonished that people say you sound mentally ill-it is because you sound delusional and plain silly
how old is howie "Nanc?" why don't you tell us how old he is ? set the record straight for us. you met him on match.com? was his age right on there 'nanc'? ask him how old is he and let us know here..
how will you feel one or two years from now 'nanc' if you find out much or all of what he told you was lies, that presents he gave you were not really presents but used items belonging to other women? the definition of empathy is being able to put yourself in another shoes 'nanc,' are you capable of that? i agree, you do not have appear to have that character trait. i believe you will be very embarassed and ashamed in a few years as I see these nice ladies are . it feels like rape to be treated like this 'nanc.' it IS a form of mental rape to lie and manipulate peoples minds like howie has. what if you find out you are not the only one he told certain things to or did certain things with. how would you feel to find he told you this just to play with your head and heart. you seem to think you are more special than the rest of us now 'nanc' do you think you are above being treated like this by him, because you have truly affected howie and now is he is a new man only because of you nanc? these women thought they were special too nanc. howie told them so. he told me so too nanc (and we had strawberries & champagne nanc gee whiz you arent the only one) so did his ex wife at one time . why are you so special and so wonderful and so unique compared to all these other fine ladies ? it is childish delusional thinking, that is why people think you sound mentally ill, it is because of what you say nanc. you came on here and you named these names and i re-read all the posts on this blog 3 or 4 times, a few of the ladies you named outright in particular, seem like genuine, caring, smart and nice ladies who were sincerely hurt and confused by howies mistreatment. yet you wrote about them like dirt on this blog. like dirt nanc. like absolute dirt. you aren't focused on tearing down anyone else? bullshit 'nanc! you did and you have since you first wrote on here
how do you know howie is telling you the truth about any of these ladies? he has no history of truthfulness or of good relationships with any woman. tell us nanc, what is so special about you, that you have changed this? why are you so unique compared to the rest of the us? we would like to know your secret in turning a man around. maybe we can do it too nanc if we can only be like you.
Sure, why not, nanc already admits to making fifty false posts. What would stop her/him from pretending to be the scared innocent victim, the guy with the scoop on the blog owner, NOTHING, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. Anything that further's Howie's cause will be suspect even if true.
He has cried wolf too often for anyone to come to his rescue again.
Howie was writing back and forth to Gail. It was NOT all one way. I saw letters and emails he wrote her. Maybe he did flirt with her and play with her mind.
I want to know Nanc's secret too!!!!!!!! Maybe she can write a dating book for all of us! Nanc, throw out that other dumb book idea, what was it? "Women who manipulate men with sex? Oh yeah, sure." or was it "women who use sex to blackmail their men"? Delusional? YUP!
I will try to think of a clever title for this one. How to turn a lying asshole into a kind and caring man sounds awfully boring.....
Catholic Creature Squashing Big Assed Mama (CCSBAM)
The last eight posts DEFINITELY ARE NOT from the same person, but from five different different IP addresses in different locations. Two were written by the same person. Not all IP addresses have a geographic location. It can be the location of the server company that is listed so it can be misleading.
The last two posts are NOT true, and were not written by me. Those posts originated in Lake Tahoe. I work for company that has access and is owned by google, and I am a software engineer and that is all I'll say. I was the one who wrote and signed the original "IP Tracker email"
I will also tell you that minniemouse or the blog starter is not from Dracut Massaschusetts. The blog was started in Lake Tahoe and the original post was from Lake Tahoe.
At this point, there is not a record of all the IP addresses of each post, but it is true a great deal of them come from Lake Tahoe.
Only google employees have access to this information and I could get in a lot of trouble for telling you this so I won't do it again.
But just so all of you do know, the posts I said came from Howie, I believe really did. His emails are from the same IP address as those posts.
Correction-Regarding the last eight posts phony IP tracker mentioned. Two were written by one person and two were written by a different person. Then there are four other IP addresses. All 8 are NOT from the same person.
I post anonymously on here and don't like people saying where the posts come from. If you work for google you SHOULD get in trouble for saying where all the posts come from. I thought this was supposed to be anonymous. You are playing right into their hands helping him figure out who is posting. That's not right! Who knows why you are doing this.
You are right. BUT, the ONLY reason I said something was to show everyone (HELP everyone) see that he is making some up of these posts himself. He is very obviously trying to scare and manipulate people into not writing about him. Do you understand? I will not expose anyone else.
Actually, I will not tell anyone when he is posting either anymore. I should not have done that and I am not sure of this last post either. People, realize that it is hard to tell exact geographics sometimes because of server locations. Some users know how to change their addresses too. Just realize that he is definitely posting, and his posts are highly manipulative so be careful. That was my point.
i only one wrote one lettering last evening. and i am still awaiting nanc's answers to my most inquistions. i want to know howies real age and what he told you nanc. and i wish to know how you are more special than all of us who came before you. maybe we can learn and heal from this dear. i am not the one who made jokings about a book
i also would like to know how you would feel in 1, 2 or 5 years if you find out much of what howie told you really was likes. what if you got used panties as a gift that were used in sex acts with other ladies..... but what if howie told you he bought them just for you...or some other items... how will you feel if you discover he realy is writing with others right now about sex things and you think you are the only one
i believed him too nanc i believed what he told me about other ladies. that they were bothering him but he wasnt really as interested as they were, or that he didnt want to hurt their feelings or that they made it up in their heads and he needed restraining orders. i belived all he told me like you are nanc, i can see why you believe him dear..he can be quite convincing and charming
I will always be surprised at how it is people can post inaccurate things as statements of facts, but it keeps happening. Howie has never posted on this site, despite "IP tracker's" accusations. While I know who it is and the name hasn't been posted here before, it's too bad you 'assume' or make a false statement like that. Don't you know Howie's writing? Can't you tell this isn't him? We don't have the same writing style. (I didn't list your name because Howie says privacy is super important to your job or something).
I never said I was better than anyone else. I have only posted what my relationship with him is like now as clarification for what others are saying it is. Who knows how I'll feel later. You can all throw a party if we break up.
And if you want to talk to Howie directly, you know how to reach him.
nanc, the defence you are offering is a red herring. who cares what you post? we'd all assume you share the same IP address as howie if you're living together.
the suspicion and accusation is, william's post came from the same source as the nanc post in reply.
this is highly suspicious because you claim "G" is under a court order i presume to leave you alone. Is "William" a show to the court to get the blog shut down?
i won't worry about that, this was a nice supportive list while you were busy with your boat rides and BBQ's. now it's just like being back in middle school. that is enough to drive the posters away. i'd have never thought of that strategy. well done!
nanc, you and howie DO have the same exact writing style. the letter written to lisa S looks exactly like your writing, the tone, the words, everything about it
your comments just made ip tracker appear 100% correct, howie is trying to manipulate this blog
you ignored kay's questions. i'd like the answer about howies age for one thing. i don't care about how you would feel if you got used panties too. you apparently are a goddess and are way way way above the rest of us, but i didnt know he lied about his age too. so please verify since you are his self-appointed spokesperson. you put yourself in the role so if you don't answer, it just makes both of you look even worse
also nanc, why would anyone have a party if your break up? i could care less if you stay together or break up. the blog never was about you. you are a moot point as someone once wrote. you comment is comical as it shows how self centered you are.
no one cares nanc! get it! since you first started posting you have continued to make self centered moronic stateemnts like "i know what you are up to!!" or "some of you girls have met me" as if this is high school and we all are jealous. let me straighten you out nanc. NONE OF US ARE JEALOUS OF YOU or want to be you or in your shoes with Howie. Do you get it finally??
you are a narcissist, that is why people think you are howie. i do think you exist but i think you speak for him word for word, no woman with true depth, with character, with a big heart and soul would ever attack other woman like you have done on this blog. it is one thing to defend your man, it is another to attack and actually blame women who have real reasons to be upset as you have done.
I have insomnia and I was just reading Nancy's posts and I have to make some comments. Then I am just done with all of this. I am sick of it and I just don't care anymore. I wish the person would delete it. It helped me see I wasn't the only one and for that I am grateful. But now the whole thing is crazy and should be shut down. Come on Minnie, you can do it!
Anyhow Nancy made this comment: "Its like watching a movie and then at the end, someone tells me - this is what you life is, when i go home and know it's nothing like that. but someone wants me to say that is what it is. I am the one living it. that's where my anger comes from."
Nancy, I know how you feel. I really do. I had this image of Howie for a long time that was completely shattered when he started treating me badly after giving me so much attention for months and months. What did he tell me? It was he had never given any woman this much attention and time since early college. And then when I first started reading this blog, it felt like a movie to me too. I never knew Howie lied to me so much until this blog. So I can understand how you feel. My time with him in person was also very normal too and we did a lot of nice and fun and normal things. We had a great time together in person. Really great. Howie has many great attributes-he is funny and smart and such a hard worker! I give him credit for all those things. I just thought of him as a guy who wasn't great with intimacy, but I never considered him or thought of him as a womanizer or liar until this blog. SO you can see how naive and trusting I was. And this thing with him hurt me very badly because it damaged my ability to trust others. That is what I am the most upset about it. It has affected me with other men now. I could tell you a lot and even show you things so you could clearly see how distorted what he told you about even me one person was. But I don't care to. It is behind me. But maybe you can imagine how shocked I was to find out that so much of what he told me was a lie. That is why I wrote him about the blog in the first place. We hadn't been writing much and I had moved on and was dating. When I thought of Howie then, it was never with anger, but more with sadness that it didn't work out but that happens. We all have it happen and I had accepted it Nancy. I did not feel like a woman scorned either Nancy. Not at all.
Also to correct two of your comments about me. I never said I didn't enjoy emailing the fantasy stuff with Howie and that it wasn't my decision. I have no clue what that has to do with anything or why you had to use my name in that context. I have never denied that nor have I ever told anyone the details of the fantasies and things we talked about.. I mean he swore me to secrecy and told me I was the only one he trusted this too so for two years I believed he meant that. I never have had someone lie to me like this. I kept my promise to him to not tell anyone because I cared about him even though things did not work out with him and I.
Second thing, I was trying to figure out what you meant about me wishing he would come out of his shell. That is not what I used to say to him. What I would tell him all the time is that what I hoped and wished for him, is that someday he would be really honest with someone and face all of his problems in an honest way. That is what I said and I still wish it for him because he has so many great attributes.
You may not believe this but I am sorry and sad this blog exists. But again, its karma. It didn't happen out of the blue and if Howie had made different choices, the blog would not be here. Yet the two of you act like victims and that is just wrong.
He also clearly has not done what I had hoped for him, which is to be honest with himself and others. He isn't being honest with you, that is very obvious and I do believe one day you will see it. I really did care about him and I don't think you really know the whole story or picture. The part you wrote about me interpreting everything differently because it was email was very hurtful. If you saw all the emails from him and if you really knew and understand what he put me through , you would be embarrassed that you made such a comment to me.
I hope when someday if he tells other people lies like that about you you will remember this. I don't wish it upon you because I wouldn't wish it upon anyone, but unfortunately it will happen. I remember sitting in his living room and he was showing me all of these emails on his computer and telling me about each of these women and how he couldn't get rid of them. I thought to myself then, one of these days he is going to treat me like that and it happened Nancy. It will happen to you too unfortunately. I hope not, but inside don't you think it might? If not, wow, you are more naive than I was. I kind of knew it but I ignored it and that was my fault completely!
FINALLY, and I KNOW this is all long, but this is my last post so indulge me!! I also said I would not do what you are doing. I wouldn't Nancy, sorry. I would defend him to my friends and family off line but I would never ever do what you are doing. I called him on his BS and his problems and he did not like that one bit. At an outside glance and I could be wrong, you are not doing that. That is why I don't think you are good for him in the long run. I know you don't care and sure I could be wrong, but that is my opinion and I'll stick with it.
This is my last post for real. I am tired of this blog. The only reason I wrote recently was another shocker to find out the blue pants were not a gift for me at all but used by others. That is just disgusting and any woman would be upset by that. It just is totally unbelievable to me how many lies he told me when I was there for him and I cared truly cared about him, the person inside, not the one in front of the crowds. There is something really wrong here and to me it is sad. I don't wish him or you any harm and I am sorry about the harassment. No one should be treated badly like that. It is back to karma though, and that is how I'll leave this.
the thing is you don't know what we have dealt with and what we haven't, which of his issues or mine we've helped each other. For anyone to say they can KNOW with certainty what kind of life we have or how we are toward each other, is simple impossible. I can't know what your experiences are with Howie and I don't try and tell you what they were or weren't, that would be just as stupid as you telling me what mine are. I don't have ANY illusions about what ANY man tells me. I have been through a lot in my life.
If there is anything that makes me different than most, it's that I am not shocked or surprised when people disappoint me, or lie, or have significant issues and problems in their life. The reason is that I've discovered most people do some or all of those things. In every relationship, people disappoint and hurt each other. It's when that happens, what does it mean, where does it come from, what happened in their childhood that is causing that? So, I generally react to these types of things by trying to find the root cause. Howie and I have been good for each other, that's how it is. I don't have any concerns about what strangers who don't know me have decided I am based on some posting on this site, it's as all things are online, limited.
People who meet online are foolish to think the person they're typing too is any more than some person typing back. I have friends whose marriages have ended because one person spent hours typing to others, people's hidden dark sides find outlets online because they can type and let their mind go to who knows where, then they close the computer and walk away. There are 1000s of stories about online chatting and the problems it causes and how very few people who meet online end up being able to form real relationships because when they get together communicating is so different, not impossible but different. To make the assumption you know everything about anyone by what you learned online is as silly as someone saying they know all they need to know about you by online communicating. Yes, even if you met a few times or wrote for years. reading a book doesn't tell you much, reading tons of letters doesn't tell you much, reading and writing tells you want you hear, what you interpret it as based on your life experiences. When people were posting horrible things about me calling me names and making fun of whether or not howie has a girlfriend, I got on here to post my experiences because what you were doing wasn't right. Very hypocritical to belittle, make fun, outright lies, many false identities and so on, without some balance of the truth that I know. You say I am wrong to post such 'uncaring' comments yet, you post things about me before I started posting that were ridiculously cruel. And while writings online are typically like that, in a public place it was as wrong as anything you said howie ever said to you.
Nancy, this really is my last post. To your last sentence, though I say: HUH??? I don't get it at all. I never said anything unkind about you before you even wrote?? I have no clue what you are talking about. I'll go back and look in case I am wrong, but honestly, I never heard of you or knew you existed. When you first started posting, I had no idea who you were. I thought maybe you were just a friend or a fellow comic, or Howie himself? I had no idea.
I really am sorry if you think I said cruel things about you, but Nancy, I didn't. If you hadn't put my name on here I never would have said a word about anything frankly. I wrote one post defending Howie, and a few emails to him about the blog because I was so upset and hurt, and suddenly my name was on this blog. So I don't know what you are talking about honestly I don't.
I asked Howie many times in email if he was seeing someone and he didn't say. He always told me even within the past year, that he couldn't be with just one person. I even told him you can tell me the truth, I won't be hurt now, which was true, and he just said he didn't have time for anyone. So I assumed he wasn't and was still just chatting with lots of people. I always told him I'd be happy if he met someone great for him and could be honestly close with someone, and I meant it. I really did. I hope you are good for him, really I do. I won't correct your other statements because I don't care, you don't know me and you obviously don't get certain things and can't. But clearly you have not been told everything, but that is ok because it is in the past. I am so way beyond it all now and it isn't important to me now. I wish the blog would GO AWAY just like you do. This blog just happened to bring it up for me all over again-the pain and unhappiness. I don't wish it upon you or anyone. And nothing I said in NO WAY compares to what he put me through. You are so wrong about that you have no idea how wrong you are, but you seem to want to have the last word and I don't know why. I tried to be nice to you and honest with you. I have nothing else to say.
I apologize for the public forum, it isn't my style, BUT you brought up my name first and I responded. I don't think you have made decisions that are good for him and by that I mean, you haven't helped his cause on this blog. You have made him look so much worse and why you are doing that is beyond me. You appear to be an enabler. That is clear to me sorry. If you aren't, I am sorry I said it, but online you have over and over blamed women and you come across as unkind and cold. But I already said that. I'd love to see him change in certain ways but enabling him sure doesn't help and you know what, people don't change. I learned that a long time ago. They just don't. And it doesn't matter what you have gone through in private, you still are blaming others for his behavior right out here in the open for all to see. Can't you see that? You have made him look so much worse.
THIS REALLY IS MY LAST POST. But I felt had to correct your last sentence.
I am done. If you say something else, I am just not going to respond.
Your emotional and irrational reactions illustrate your lack of understanding and ability to accept another's point of view. When people react as you did with violent explusions of such anger over something so innocuous as a person's opinion it's got nothing to do with the person they are directing it at but something to do yourself, not me.
Your interpretation of what I meant by my earlier posting today is yours not mine and proves exactly what I wrote - that the receiver of information filters their interpretation through their experiences. I meant it from my perspective. Everyone's point of view is (1) true for themselves (2) valuable information and (3) their own. I own my perspective and you own yours.
this morning I saw a sad report on the news about a family, wife and 2 girls murdered and I was thinkin about the important things in life and then thot about you here.
None of you know a thing about me other than these typed words. I have known what it's like to lose family members you love at a young age and older too. Love lost is horribly painful in any capacity.
But "this blog" and past experiences with Howie, while important to your own lives are NOT the total sum of him or me, or you, but at this point and in the scope of what's important, the people who love you and care about you , and hopefully we all have some of those, are what is important; tearing down Howie and me too can't really be more important than clinging to those who lift you up. Lashing out at me for having a different experience doesn't change your experience or mine. they are different.
I'm sad about the war, the family murdered yesterday, the people in Tahoe who've lost everything they own in the recent fires; I've got my own stuff going on too, there is so much more important things than all this.
And to Lisa or anyone else, I was never writing to "you" as an individual; I didn't choose to respond to each point "you" or another "you" made. I posted general responses. If "you" (whomever you are) think me posting the truth about my relationship makes him look worse than "you" posting he is a criminal, my opinion is that perspective is odd.
oh and just for clarification, I didn't think Lisa K posted in anger except when she said she did. It's the postings from "kay" and others 'screaming' at me is the anger I was referring to, just to be clear. I have posted I thought Lisa K truly seems to have cared about Howie.
No Lisa wasn't being emotional, if you would have read the last post I said I was referring to the person posting under the guise of "kay" -- in other words 'YOU' - I wrote the post after reading "Kay's" earlier post, before Lisa K posted her afternoon comments.... and then I posted the 2 clarification comments which "kay" failed to read, but your anger continues to prove my comments, no reason to be so irrational and illogical I wasn't talking about Lisa at all, it's "kay" and other screamers.
i swear you think you run this blog now don't you.
having a new girfriend hardly excuses howie
i don't like that he has a girlfriend spokesperson and cant speak for himself. he said the blog is unimportant to him? that is SICK. i cant believe howie lets a girl speak for him
you sure came along at a convenient time for him, kind of suspicious
u said he didnt send you but so what. you still are speaking for him and its terrible things you say. shoving in peoples faces-about the boat, the straberies. i had them too, big deal!
he should apologize! he should get professional help. ill stop talking about him when he admits he was wrong on this blog and tells us. if lindsay shuts it down, we can start another one you know.
cuz he is getting away with criminal activity by having you take over this blog and speaking for him
are you his mother for god's sake?
you come on here and say all of us particpated too but that is not the point. a woman who would just overlook all this like you are has a screw loose! you are so confident you are different. ,i do wish this on you nanc. i hope you eat crow in a big way and run home to wherever you came from not cuz i want howie but cuz but only because of what you are doing. you are defending an abuser!!
he needs to come on here and say he is sorry to people, he has never repented. his letter to lisa s showed he thought he did nothing wrong u repeated his same words. you are defending a womanizer and mental abuser. plus the animals of course. are you telling us nanc that you dont fantisize with him about the animal crushing?
are you proud of that?
you're blaming Lindsay! how do you even know Lindsay. maybe he screwed her over like these others, how can you say it is everyone else but howie. do you know how stupid that sounds? it is ridiculous
I didn't post that MinnieMouse was Lindsay, don't ASSUME what you don't know, although that is the typical response here. If you remember, Lindsay's friend posted the blog was hers.
Once again I am not speaking for Howie, I am speaking for myself. I don't need anyone's permission to do so - especially Yours or Howie's. If you will notice, I have never spoken of whatever Howie does or didn't do or say or whatever with you. I speak of my knowledge of him.
Do you get permission from someone to post here? Have you asked Howie if it's ok for you to trash him publicly? No? But you think I should get someone's permission? Once again, hypocritical.
If you want to talk to Howie, why not contact him directly? Need an apology from someone in your life, speak directly to the person, would be more meaningful I'm sure.
And again, if "you" are free to post whatever the hell you want, then me too! Without anyone's permission.
"You" think you know what I think? You've no idea.
Once again, I'll repeat myself to the "anonymouse 5:17 posting": Your emotional and irrational reactions illustrate your lack of understanding and ability to accept another's point of view. When people react as you did with violent explusions of such anger over something so innocuous as a person's opinion it's got nothing to do with the person they are directing it at but something to do yourself, not me.
Gruesome pictures, which first appeared on a website, have been reproduced in recent days in many newspapers. In the first picture, the woman, wearing a cocktail dress with a leopard-print top and black skirt, caresses a tortoiseshell kitten lovingly. Then she puts it on the ground, looks at it - and lowers a stiletto heel on to its head.
Before her QQ address went dead, its owner had several conversations. In one, she is coy, saying "So what?" when asked if the pictures are of her, and then, when asked again, replying: "In theory."
When confronted by a reporter, she became defensive, saying: "Suddenly hundreds of people are on my QQ and cursing me. What's the problem if I crush cats? It's a type of experience. You wouldn't understand."
He Yong, a Beijing representative of the International Fund for Animal Welfare, said the angry response to the pictures had been heartening.
"We are still trying to confirm who it is in the pictures and where it is," he said. "The embarrassing thing is that there are no available laws in China governing this type of misbehaviour.
"We are trying to draft an open letter to the authorities asking for the possibility of creating an animal welfare law."
Related Stories v Cat Stomped to Death in Film Draws Outrage v Unwanted Cats and Grandma Ding v Please Treat Animals Kindly The subsequent images are graphic and deeply disturbing. The last photograph shows the woman staring into the distance with a questioning look on her face.
Reporters and amateur sleuths are now trying to find the woman, while media outlets have been flooded with readers' suggestions of what should be done to her.
The location for the sequence has been identified from a stretch of water in the background as being Hangzhou, a picturesque city south-west of Shanghai. A trace on the original website also led there, and the mystery woman has been dubbed "the kitten killer of Hangzhou".
Some newspapers then came up with a new twist - linking the pictures to an international community of animal sadists and fetishists. One website said the sequence was well-known in Japan, where it started life as an advertisement for a brand of stiletto shoes, and identified the woman as a model.
But attention returned to China when an internet surfer came across a 37-year-old woman from Hubei province with the internet identity "Gainmas". She had registered a website in Hangzhou and - the ultimate evidence - had bought a pair of stilettoes on eBay last year.
She was also registered with QQ, a popular Chinese message service, where she wrote of herself: "I furiously crush everything to do with you and me."
Before her QQ address went dead, its owner had several conversations. In one, she is coy, saying "So what?" when asked if the pictures are of her, and then, when asked again, replying: "In theory."
When confronted by a reporter, she became defensive, saying: "Suddenly hundreds of people are on my QQ and cursing me. What's the problem if I crush cats? It's a type of experience. You wouldn't understand."
He Yong, a Beijing representative of the International Fund for Animal Welfare, said the angry response to the pictures had been heartening.
"We are still trying to confirm who it is in the pictures and where it is," he said. "The embarrassing thing is that there are no available laws in China governing this type of misbehaviour.
"We are trying to draft an open letter to the authorities asking for the possibility of creating an animal welfare law."
Animal rights activists plan protest of Long Island DA's lenient charge against porn videos peddler.
By Robert Masterson
Published 12/30/99
Local animal rights activists are planning to rally and protest at the Jan. 14 trial of Thomas Capriola, a Long Island man accused of making and selling "crush videos," a bizarre subgenre of the amateur pornography market that presents high-heeled women crushing small animals to death. The protest at Suffolk County's First District Courthouse in Central Islip will center on both the practice of videotaping for profit this cruel sexual fetish and the Suffolk County District Attorney's charging of Capriola with a single count of cruelty to animals.
"I got the call at home early in the morning," recalled Chief Roy Gross of the Suffolk County Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals, describing Capriola's May 1998 arrest. "My wife came to me and said, 'You've got to take this call' and started telling me what it was about. I said, 'Come on. What are you telling me?' I had never heard of anything like that before in my life. I don't think there's a word to describe what these people were doing... It was absolutely horrible to review these tapes so we could charge him. It was the most incredible thing I've ever seen in my life." What these people were doing is creating masturbation fantasies for a worldwide market.
Capriola is accused of hiring women to wear high heels and destroy a variety of small animals--among them guinea pigs, mice, turtles, frogs--while being videotaped from the knees down. "Apparently, that's what it is," Gross continued. "They get dressed up in high-heels and the foreplay is fondling the animal with the heels, slowly touching it with the heels and they get a little more aggressive. Then they torture [the animals] by jabbing the heel into their bodies and then eventually crush them and smash them into nothing, just squash them right into the floor...The idea here was to make money. He was selling these videotapes for anywhere from $35 to $100 a piece. He was marketing them through the Internet.
As a matter of fact, we got a letter from Scotland Yard congratulating us for busting him. They'd been trying to nail this guy for a long time. We grabbed his shipping records for sales out-of- state and out of the country; it's unbelievable to think that not only was he making these videos but that there's such a market for them." Both animal-rights activists and politicians have been working to curb the growing popularity of "crush videos" with new legislation designed to punish the traders.
For Capriola, however, these laws come too late. Despite the fact that New York State made this activity felonious in November of this year, despite the fact that federal law prohibiting the production and sale of "crush videos" has just been signed into law by President Clinton, Capriola's arrest took place while his crimes were still considered misdemeanors and he appears to have "grandfathered" his way out of a serious offense. "It's a $1,000 fine and a year in jail for each offense, but what the actual charge is going to be is up to the [Suffolk County] District Attorney," Gross explained.
"[Capriola] could have thousands of counts; if you look through the videos for every animal that was tortured or mutilated and killed and if he's charged on each one and they all stick...hypothetically he could go away for years and years. It's not up to us [the SPCA] but, of course, we would like to see him get the maximum for something this horrendous." However, the court will only be hearing a single count of animal cruelty (an unclassified misdemeanor) brought against Capriola. Why have the hundreds, if not thousands, of killings documented on his homemade snuff films elicited separate charges? "The evidence we have will support only the one particular charge," Ed Flaherty, Assistant District Attorney for the court, said.
Tying this individual to the deaths of all the animals will require more evidence. Even if we had a thousand counts, the sentences would all merge in any case; you can only serve two years of local time." Capriola also faces a single count of harassment in the second degree (a violation punishable by a fine of up to $250 and/or 15 days in jail) and a single count of criminal possession of marijuana (a class B misdemeanor carrying a penalty of 90 days in jail or 60 to 355 days of probation). However, in an affidavit attached to the charging document and dated April 30, 1998, Vanessa Moore of Patchogue describes her involvement in more than 100 incidents wherein she was videotaped while crushing frogs, mice, lizards and rats. "After drinking six or seven beers, I became intoxicated," Moore testified. "After I was drunk, [Capriola] tied up small frogs and put them on the floor and marked them with white-out.
[He] then told me to crush the frogs and grind and twist a lot with my feet. He then said if I told anyone he'd get mad. He had me do this about 20 times to other animals which became larger..." After she drew the line at guinea pigs, Capriola replaced Moore, hired another woman and, when necessary, dressed himself up for the role.
Thirty-six videos were produced in this fashion, according to the young woman. "I have seen [Capriola] crush approximately 40 mice, four rats and four guinea pigs," Moore continued. "When [he] dresses as a woman, he calls himself 'Debby.' " The relatively slight punishment for such outrageous violations seems to strike local animal rights activists as more than a little outrageous in and of itself. And that slight punishment is only possible if Capriola goes to trial and is convicted. His Dec. 14 trial was adjourned while the judge considers a motion to suppress evidence based on search warrant issues filed by Capriola's attorney, Paul Gianelli. "He had drugs in there--marijuana," said Gross, describing Capriola's room where he lived and operated his movie studio in his mother's house. "He had weapons, but we couldn't charge him for them...He had all types of semi-automatic weapons and assault weapons...but he was in legal possession of these. He had Nazi paraphernalia on his wall--a picture of a storm trooper. He had a fish tank full of live mice in his room.
His mother said she had no knowledge of what he was doing. We have the videos, we have his computer, and we took it right out of there."
Animal rights activists reacted strongly to the news that Capriola might escape with only minimal, if any, punitive action from the state.
"There's a special place in hell for [Capriola]. He's beyond monster," said ADOW, a member of People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals and a fierce Yonkers activist. "They [the Suffolk County District Attorney's office] dropped the ball big time.
They have the tools to take care of people like this, they have the evidence and they have the wherewithal to charge him to a much greater degree. Why aren't they doing this? Possibly they don't realize what a good part of the world is coming to see. Some people in the world are realizing that these are sentient creatures. Other people, some people on Long Island, are still back in the dark ages where animals were considered property. Other places--California, the Bronx--have started to utilize every possible law to prosecute."
"These crush videos are produced and promoted by a depravity that is incomprehensible to most of us," said Louis Gedo, an In Defense of Animals representative from the Bronx. "We want to see Capriola prosecuted for animal cruelty to fullest extent of the law. Let his trial be a message to supporters of this sordid practice that their fetish will not be tolerated and they should seek psychological help rather than sick gratification."
Woman charged with bilking Freightliner out of millions 09:10 AM PDT on Friday, June 29, 2007 Associated Press Federal agents arrested a former Freightliner employee at her home in Boring Thursday on charges that she was part of a scheme to bilk the company out of $6.7 million.
An indictment says 38-year-old Sabina Veiru secretly worked for two years with a Miami truck parts wholesaler that sold Freightliner parts in Latin America.
She is accused of putting $7.7 million worth of credits into the Freightliner account for a Florida company, JG Trading, which used the credits to get the parts at no cost.
JG then allegedly sent more than $3 million to a Portland bank account controlled by Veiru.
She worked for Freightliner from 1998 to 2005. Her attorney says she maintains she is innocent. Freightliner filed a lawsuit against her and JG in 2006 making many of the claims that appear in the indictment.
TWO WOMEN CONVICTED OF BINGO SKIMMING Case includes mail fraud, tax evasion
By Beth Musgrave HERALD-LEADER STAFF WRITER September 22, 2006
Last year, gamblers shelled out $545 million in Kentucky to play bingo for charities. It's a mostly cash-based business. And for some, that cash is too tempting.
Yesterday, a federal jury convicted two Madison County women of skimming proceeds from bingo operations at Jackpot Charity Bingo in Waco and hiding their income from federal authorities.
Rita Faye Tipton, 64, and Gloria Ann Williams, 65, are the latest to be convicted of pocketing bingo proceeds. According to the state Office of Charitable Gaming, Tipton and Williams are two of 26 people who have been convicted of stealing money intended for charity since 2003.
Tipton said after the verdict that she was not sure whether she and her sister would appeal. The Tiptons are expected to be sentenced Dec. 8 along with Brenda and Cletis Merrill Adams, indicted with Williams and Tipton earlier this year. Williams and Tipton were convicted of conspiracy, two counts of mail fraud and three counts of tax evasion.
The Adamses, who are married, pleaded guilty earlier this month to one count each of tax evasion rather than go to trial.
"I was very shocked today with the decision of the jury," Tipton said after the verdict. She said that, after jury selection, Assistant U.S. Attorney Ken Taylor accused her lawyer, Michael Dean, of striking all of the intelligent people from the jury pool and leaving Taylor "with a non-educated jury. I just thought that the jury should know that they were uneducated."
Tipton declined to comment further.
Taylor said yesterday that Tipton misconstrued what he described as a lighthearted comment between lawyers. Taylor said that he told Dean that he appeared to be striking potential jurors based on their education level. Taylor said he was not making a crack about the intelligence of the jury.
The jury took a little less than 21/2 hours to render the guilty verdict on all counts.
Over the past 18 months, several Kentucky residents have been charged with or convicted of diverting money intended for good causes to their own pockets.
Woman charged after Disney World queue brawl July 19, 2007 A woman has been charged with beating and kicking another woman she said cut in line at a Walt Disney World attraction in Florida.
Victoria Walker, 51, was released from Orange County jail after posting a $US4,000 ($A4,560) bond yesterday, nearly two months after the altercation while in line for the Mad Tea Party.
Walker was with her 11-year-old daughter when she yelled obscenities at Aimee Krause, 35, and shoved two children with Krause, according to a sheriff's report.
Walker grabbed Krause from behind and began beating her until witnesses pulled the women apart, the document said. Disney security responded and called sheriff officials who made a report and allowed the woman to leave.
But Krause told the Orlando Sentinel that her doctors diagnosed her with a concussion, a herniated disc in her cervical spine and post-traumatic seizures.
This prompted an arrest warrant to be issued for Walker on June 11. She was taken into custody in Alabama and extradited to Florida on Sunday. Walker has been charged with battery.
"Everybody was going to get on the ride," sheriff's spokesman Jim Solomons said. "You shake your head and wonder how this could happen."
Krause said she and others asked at least twice for the ride's operator to call security and have Walker removed.
6 FATAL MISTAKES OF ONLINE DATING AND HOW TO AVOID THEM! By Dean Shanson
Dating is never easy. Although online matchmaking cuts out the need for seedy bars and corny chat-up lines, it doesn't remove the cause of every difficulty found in every relationship: the people.
We all make mistakes, and when we look back on our past relationships, it's pretty clear that many of us make them all the time. To help reduce your error rate-and increase your chances of success-we've produced a list of the top eight dating mistakes made by online loveseekers.
1. No Picture, No Chance!
Let's be honest-looks are important. Sure, personality is crucial and character comes first, but if you don't get those butterflies in the belly when you see your partner's face, your relationship's got a shorter life expectancy than a J.Lo marriage.
Profiles with pictures get around ten times more responses than those without, and for good reason: anyone who writes to a cyberdater without knowing what they look like is taking a huge risk. What do you do if the e-mails go without a hitch, the telephone calls last hours, but when you meet face-to-face, you find you've been talking to Quasimodo's twin? It's too early for 'it's not you, it's me' and if everything else has gone well, you've got nothing left to blame but looks.
Upload a picture, and you'll get far more responses to choose from. Pick a partner with a picture, and you can put any future problems down to personality.
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2. High Hopes, Low Rewards
Have you ever noticed how the people who have the most dates always seem to be the people who need them least? They're the happy-go-lucky types, the ones with a joy for living who could find a silver lining in a tornado. There you are, sitting at home alone on Saturday night, dreaming of being on a perfect date, and they're out every night without any effort at all.
It's got nothing to do with looks and everything to do with attitude. Successful daters, online and off, regard dating as a chance to meet new people, not a chance to get laid or pick up a wedding ring. If the date doesn't work, well heck, maybe the date's got friends, and at least they've got a new one.
One of the biggest mistakes you can make while dating online is to expect the next person you meet to be The One.
S/he might be. But you won't know it for a while. Lower your expectations, look on each date as a chance to meet someone new, and you'll find yourself meeting new people all the time.
3. Dull Profile, Dull Partners
Okay, we've already said that picture's are important, but the profile is vital too. There are millions of profiles on dating sites across the web-you want to be sure that your profile is interesting enough to both catch someone's eye and capture their interest.
That means you're going to have put in a bit of effort. When you first register to a dating site, by all means write anything just to get the profile up. But once it's up, sit down with a pal, a bottle of wine, and a big bucket of fun, and have a ball putting together a profile that's witty, exciting and attractive. You'll find that like attracts like.
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4. The Truth, The Whole Truth, And Nothing Like The Truth…
'Witty and exciting' is not however the same as a complete pack of lies. Just because potential dates are complete strangers is not a good enough reason to stretch the truth.
Fibs are no less a mistake in online dating than they are offline.
Remember, every stranger is just a friend you haven't met, and you wouldn't lie to your friends, would you? Well, you wouldn't want to start a new relationship with a lie, anyway.
Be brave. Put down your real age, your real job, your real hair color. Save the whoppers for the taxman.
5. All Speed, No Substance
While love may come at first sight, it rarely comes with first click. There's very little you can tell about someone from their first e-mail, the first phone conversation, or even the first date.
It's a mistake to think you can move from mouse click to heart click in a matter of days.
Online relationships tend to take longer than those take place offline. The reason should be clear: any e-mail says little more than you can find out in the time it takes for a waiter to open a bottle of wine. What you can learn in an hour offline could take you a week on the Web.
Take it slow and enjoy the process. Hedge bets and talk online to lots of different people at the same time then whittle them down. Don't rush off with the first person who comes along, or you'll find yourself answering lots of e-mail and having very few dates.
6. Give Up, Stay Single
And it doesn't just take time to get to know someone new; it also takes a while to find someone you want to build a relationship with.
It's a mistake to expect all your dating problems to end overnight.
The real advantage in online dating is not speed or convenience (although that's certainly a major plus!) but the easy availability of the easy and the available. On the Internet, you should be prepared to meet lots of different people and over a long period of time.
You'll certainly come across lots of duds before you find a live one, but don't judge all the fish by the first ones you hook. Keep casting until you land the kind of catch you can bring home and boast about to your pals.
Internet matchmaking services seem to be everywhere. Do they work? What kinds of people are using them? Is it realistic to find your life partner this way? My husband and I had met on the Internet, so we are a living proof that Internet romance can be successful. I can honestly say that we are a perfect match. Yet, I am aware that there are disaster stories as well, from all kinds of shocking discoveries when two Internet daters meet in person to pure scams. With the anonymity the Internet offers, it is too easy for dishonesty to find its way into the process. We are often asked how we succeeded, and whether it was hard to weed out the wrong people and make the right choice. Many are curious about how we handled the long distance relationship and whether it is possible to really get to know someone through letters, e-mails, and phone calls. Many ask why we had turned to the Internet to begin with. Let me try to address all these questions one by one.
Who looks for romance online and why?
I have met people who think that only losers and sex-daters look for partners on the Internet: losers go online because they cannot meet anyone “in the real life,” and sex-daters because it’s a quick way to find someone just for sex and nothing else. While both categories certainly do exist, there is also a third one, and I think it may be the largest: decent men and women who are serious about meeting their special someone and creating a family. The reason they go online is usually because they know exactly what they want in their future life partner, and they do not wish to settle for less. Call them picky; they are. They realize that with the help of the Internet they will have the whole world at their fingertips, so they are simply expanding their search. Many of these people are hard-working professionals who have little time for “regular dating,” which is another reason why they turn to the Internet. Daily e-mailing and chatting does not take that much time and yet allows, if used wisely, to get to know the other person just as well as if you were going out and spending time together. In our case, we were both picky and busy. My husband lived in a small community where there were not many single women of the kind he would be interested in. I, on the contrary, lived in a huge city, but faced the same problem: somehow, there were not many single men around me who had the qualities I was looking for. I worked full time and overtime, leaving home at 7:00 AM and returning around 9:00 PM. My husband ran his own business and was often on the road, traveling for 3-5 days almost every week. As you see, we did not have much time for going out. Chose the right dating website
If you consider looking for your future life partner online, make sure you chose the right website. It is usually easy enough to see whether a particular website is for marriage minded people or sex-daters. Look at the people’s profiles, see what they are saying about themselves and the person they desire to meet. Their descriptions and stated priorities will speak for themselves. Of course, there is always a chance of a sex-dater posting an ad at a “serious” website, but usually, the two do not mix. Another thing I always advise is to chose a website that lets you fill out a detailed profile, not just a brief ad stating your age, height, weight, and hair color. The more you can share about yourself and read about your potential mate, the better. When good profiles are available, you will narrow down your search quickly and easily. You won’t even need to contact certain people to see whether you are compatible, you will read their information and know it right away if they are not someone you would be interested it. I had joined a dating website that offered a brief questionnaire and a detailed profile; you could start with the first and fill out the second later on. There were some folks there who never did that, they just filled out the questionnaire and never went any further. For me, those were the profiles to disregard automatically. It told me that those people were not serious enough about finding their other half, they did not care to give it the full effort.
Know what you want
When you have found the right website, the next step is, of course, to find the right person. Knowing exactly what you want in your future life partner helps a lot. Hopefully, you already know that. If you are not sure, you might have to sit down and think about it, very hard, before you start looking at the profiles. Here are some helpful questions to ask yourself: 0. What do you value the most in a man/woman? What qualities are you looking for? What type of a personality? Character? Mindset? 0. What about education? Would you prefer a college graduate? Would you only date someone with a college degree? 0. If you have never been married, is it important to you to find someone who has never been married as well? Would you consider someone who has been divorced? How about a widow/widower? 0. How do you feel about children? Do you want any? How many? How soon? Is it okay if your future spouse has children from previous marriage? 0. What about religion? Politics? 0. What about hobbies and sports? Would you like your mate to fully share your interests, or would you like someone whose interests are different than yours so that you both can learn something new? Which ones of your preferences are a must, and which ones are negotiable?
As singles meet and match online, cyberdaters all begin with the same problem: initially at least, they know nothing about their virtual partners. In the real world, couples are usually introduced through mutual friends or family members who are then grilled for personal history and references. In the online world, that knowledge has to be gathered directly from the potential date - and those getting-to-know-you e-mails usually form the first phase of most cyber-relationships.
Occasionally however, suspicions are aroused. Lawyers who claim to be in their thirties let slip that they have 20 years' experience. Apparently perfect partners refuse to reveal personal details and say the relationship has to be kept quiet. Attractive women start sounding remarkably like men. Usually, those suspicions are enough to send the relationship straight to the recycle bin, but increasingly, thousands of users are choosing to have their doubts confirmed first with the help of a professional background check.
Linda Alexander is the owner of whoisshe.com and whoishe.com, Internet services that offer personal checks on online lovers. In the three and a half years she has been running the websites, the San Diego attorney says she has checked the identities and records of "thousands" of virtual love-seekers. In fact, she says, in some 60 percent of the cases, her clients' suspicions are proved correct. Marital status and age are among the most popular areas for untruths, and men and women, it seems, are equally prone to exaggeration.
"We find men who say they're 48 years old and they turn out to be 71 and women who say they're 33 years old and turn out to be 47," says Alexander. "It's all over the place."
For $39, Alexander's firm will carry out a basic background check, searching public records to reveal a person's name, date of birth and address history. For $75, the search will also include professional licenses, aliases, bankruptcies and liens, while an additional $45 will reveal details of the subject's criminal record, if one exists.
Citing some of the worst examples, Alexander explains how her firm discovered that a woman with children was dating a registered pedophile, that one client's partner had been arrested for firing a gun into a house, while another was communicating with a woman who was actually serving time in jail for manslaughter.
In each of the cases, the client was aware that something was wrong and wanted their fears confirmed before giving their partners the final push. "In most cases, they're already 'in love'," she explains. "They're just not going to break up until something smacks them in the face and says something's not okay."
In fact, the clients of background services are often not the cyber-daters themselves, but members of their families concerned about their loved ones' welfare. With many senior citizens using the Internet to look for a late love, worried children often ask companies like Alexander's to vet their parents' potential partners. According to Arthur Faram, President of CheckMate, up to a quarter of his clients are the families of online lovers.
For Linda Alexander however, the stories that her investigators turn up also ring a personal note. She started her business in November 1997 after meeting a man in a chatroom who claimed to be a widowed doctor. When a quick check failed to find a death certificate for the man's wife, she became suspicious.
"I asked several times what was going on and he always had an excuse. When I ran a background check, I found that the wife was alive and well and still living at home," she explained.
While Alexander broke off the relationship and chalked one up to experience, Carmen Lynn, President of DateSmart.com, was less lucky. In 1989, she was working for a private investigator, carrying out surveillance work in dark alleys and talking to clients caught in bad relationships. "At the time. I thought, 'How could someone ever get themselves in a situation like this? They must know better, have better judgment, should be able to make reasonable decisions.' Then I met someone, knew him for five weeks and married him five months later."
Lynn's husband turned out to be a con artist who defrauded her of $25,000. Their marriage was annulled after just three months. Six years later, recognizing a need for cyber-daters to date safely, she set up DateSmart.com to allow Internet users to carry out background checks on their online partners.
Like Whoishe.com, DateSmart.com also trawls public records to reveal a potential partner's past history, but rather than offering a complete package of checks, DateSmart.com gears searches to investigate the client's specific suspicions. "DateSmart is more like going to the doctor and saying 'it hurts here'," says Lynn.
Her 80 percent success rate has included a man who dressed up as a woman to fool an entire chatroom as well as the usual collection of wives whose deaths were greatly exaggerated.
According to Lynn, the motives for deception are often difficult to determine but can range from monetary gain to simple kicks. Although there are a number of warning signs that can suggest something isn't quite right about a relationship, the best advice is to trust your instincts: if something feels wrong, it probably is.
While the rates at which background services reveal dishonesty may seem remarkably high, the bad relationships aren't necessarily indicative of cyber-dating as a whole. Arthur Faram only reported a 5 percent turn-up rate, while Linda Alexander points out that background services are usually the last stop for cyber-daters who are already suspicious, but aren't quite ready to split.
"I have to think that many of the times that people contact us, they already have a sense that something isn't right," she explains. "You just have to use the same kind of common sense you would if you met someone in a bar."
As she points out though, love often leaves little room for common sense.
"These crush videos are produced and promoted by a depravity that is incomprehensible to most of us," said Louis Gedo, an In Defense of Animals representative from the Bronx. "We want to see Capriola prosecuted for animal cruelty to fullest extent of the law. Let his trial be a message to supporters of this sordid practice that their fetish will not be tolerated and they should seek psychological help rather than sick gratification."
and the rely is an article on Bingo Skimming? Unreal
6 FATAL MISTAKES OF ONLINE DATING AND HOW TO AVOID THEM! By Dean Shanson
Dating is never easy. Although online matchmaking cuts out the need for seedy bars and corny chat-up lines, it doesn't remove the cause of every difficulty found in every relationship: the people.
We all make mistakes, and when we look back on our past relationships, it's pretty clear that many of us make them all the time. To help reduce your error rate-and increase your chances of success-we've produced a list of the top eight dating mistakes made by online loveseekers.
1. No Picture, No Chance!
Let's be honest-looks are important. Sure, personality is crucial and character comes first, but if you don't get those butterflies in the belly when you see your partner's face, your relationship's got a shorter life expectancy than a J.Lo marriage.
Profiles with pictures get around ten times more responses than those without, and for good reason: anyone who writes to a cyberdater without knowing what they look like is taking a huge risk. What do you do if the e-mails go without a hitch, the telephone calls last hours, but when you meet face-to-face, you find you've been talking to Quasimodo's twin? It's too early for 'it's not you, it's me' and if everything else has gone well, you've got nothing left to blame but looks.
Upload a picture, and you'll get far more responses to choose from. Pick a partner with a picture, and you can put any future problems down to personality.
Tip: Don't have a good picture? Order a photo session from LookBetterOnline.com today! Click here for more details.
2. High Hopes, Low Rewards
Have you ever noticed how the people who have the most dates always seem to be the people who need them least? They're the happy-go-lucky types, the ones with a joy for living who could find a silver lining in a tornado. There you are, sitting at home alone on Saturday night, dreaming of being on a perfect date, and they're out every night without any effort at all.
It's got nothing to do with looks and everything to do with attitude. Successful daters, online and off, regard dating as a chance to meet new people, not a chance to get laid or pick up a wedding ring. If the date doesn't work, well heck, maybe the date's got friends, and at least they've got a new one.
One of the biggest mistakes you can make while dating online is to expect the next person you meet to be The One.
S/he might be. But you won't know it for a while. Lower your expectations, look on each date as a chance to meet someone new, and you'll find yourself meeting new people all the time.
3. Dull Profile, Dull Partners
Okay, we've already said that picture's are important, but the profile is vital too. There are millions of profiles on dating sites across the web-you want to be sure that your profile is interesting enough to both catch someone's eye and capture their interest.
That means you're going to have put in a bit of effort. When you first register to a dating site, by all means write anything just to get the profile up. But once it's up, sit down with a pal, a bottle of wine, and a big bucket of fun, and have a ball putting together a profile that's witty, exciting and attractive. You'll find that like attracts like.
Tip: Need help with yout profile? Order a Profile Makeover from LookBetterOnline.com today! Click here for more details.
4. The Truth, The Whole Truth, And Nothing Like The Truth…
'Witty and exciting' is not however the same as a complete pack of lies. Just because potential dates are complete strangers is not a good enough reason to stretch the truth.
Fibs are no less a mistake in online dating than they are offline.
Remember, every stranger is just a friend you haven't met, and you wouldn't lie to your friends, would you? Well, you wouldn't want to start a new relationship with a lie, anyway.
Be brave. Put down your real age, your real job, your real hair color. Save the whoppers for the taxman.
5. All Speed, No Substance
While love may come at first sight, it rarely comes with first click. There's very little you can tell about someone from their first e-mail, the first phone conversation, or even the first date.
It's a mistake to think you can move from mouse click to heart click in a matter of days.
Online relationships tend to take longer than those take place offline. The reason should be clear: any e-mail says little more than you can find out in the time it takes for a waiter to open a bottle of wine. What you can learn in an hour offline could take you a week on the Web.
Take it slow and enjoy the process. Hedge bets and talk online to lots of different people at the same time then whittle them down. Don't rush off with the first person who comes along, or you'll find yourself answering lots of e-mail and having very few dates.
6. Give Up, Stay Single
And it doesn't just take time to get to know someone new; it also takes a while to find someone you want to build a relationship with.
It's a mistake to expect all your dating problems to end overnight.
The real advantage in online dating is not speed or convenience (although that's certainly a major plus!) but the easy availability of the easy and the available. On the Internet, you should be prepared to meet lots of different people and over a long period of time.
You'll certainly come across lots of duds before you find a live one, but don't judge all the fish by the first ones you hook. Keep casting until you land the kind of catch you can bring home and boast about to your pals.
the postings in the past week have diminished a lot of good that might have one time come out of this. pretty soon everyone's personal information will be posted, especially after IP are being tracked. IP said it was started in Tahoe and lindsay (linzie's?) website says tahoe, but lindsay still has a crush on the guy "I'm in love with a joo/jew?" I can't believe you still like the man after all this, but honey, he's too old for you. The rest of us gals can find someone better you're young and can too.
let's set the record straight here, again, while Lindsay is on here trashing Howie she also calls and emails him incessantly, only ending when the emails were blocked. we were together the other day when she left a message begging howie to play a song dedicated to her. Inaccurate again. Too young for Howie to date her? In my opinion, no shit sherlock; too young for Demi Moore? definately, too young for Kevin costner, oh yeah. and all the rest, but, If they were happy then who am I to say, but it is my opinion that it's ridiculously too young. i suppose guys go for that. I'll probably be replaced by a 25 swf.
I do not think it is Lindsay. Sorry Linds, that people are posting about you. It isn't your fault. I think Nanc is trying to pin things on you. Poor Linds is what I have to say. She was 19 or 20 when Howie hit on her and that is wrong. She never had a relationship before and he took advantage of her and that is not right. He is over 50 even though he tells everyone he is 48. She is not in love with him anymore and it is mean to talk about her like this. It was years go and he hit on her!! What 19 year old would not be overwhelmed by that. Give the kid a break!! She is not jealous and she does not want Howie.
Nanc wouldn't answer the age thing but the real story is Howie is 50 or more, not the 48 he tells ladies on dating sites. No biggie? Well, it is still a lie. Add another lie to the list is the point. Nanc continues to defend H and talk for him and that is mentally ill.
Nanc, are you and Howie going to have babies? That is kind of scary given what some kind of suggested he likes here earlier, dont ya think?
Maybe Nanc is really Howie's mother in disguise. She acts like his mother doesn't she? and she is now posting dating articles and that is a mom thing.
Or maybe Nanc is just a control freak. Maybe she is mistress Nanc behind the curtain You know how women who like to sit on men's faces and stomp on animals are??
Or Nanc is that not what you and howie talked about when you met him on match.com? Are goddesses immune from crushing conversations? We would really like to know since we are all jealous females who really want Howie.
can you imagine being 18 or 19 and having some old gray haired overweight out of date comic guy stick his tongue in your mouth after he told you likes chubby girls to sit on rats??
how would that affect you?
it is abuse as far as i can tell
cut lindZ some slack!! i am sure after this and your attackes, if she started the blog sure she will stop it
mistress maria catholic schoolgirl mouse crushing maniac
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I would LOVE to live a quiet life, but doesn't seem as if you like that; can you READ?? i WROTE that in my opinion "no shit sherlock" "I" think a guy Howie's age is too old to date young girls but that is MY opinion , which apparently happens to agree, sadly with some sick person who calls herself a 'crushing rodent queen " how sick is that? But, YES in my opinion I don't like older guys going out with young girls, but my opinion (even when it agrees with you) you can't seem to read. that's ok I can.
You, last post (10:37) being a "younger girl" and a close and very intimate friend of hers, can explain to have her stop calling/emailing or texting, like "don't click the send button." even her friends think she is obsessed.
Internet matchmaking services seem to be everywhere. Do they work? What kinds of people are using them? Is it realistic to find your life partner this way? My husband and I had met on the Internet, so we are a living proof that Internet romance can be successful. I can honestly say that we are a perfect match. Yet, I am aware that there are disaster stories as well, from all kinds of shocking discoveries when two Internet daters meet in person to pure scams. With the anonymity the Internet offers, it is too easy for dishonesty to find its way into the process. We are often asked how we succeeded, and whether it was hard to weed out the wrong people and make the right choice. Many are curious about how we handled the long distance relationship and whether it is possible to really get to know someone through letters, e-mails, and phone calls. Many ask why we had turned to the Internet to begin with. Let me try to address all these questions one by one.
Who looks for romance online and why?
I have met people who think that only losers and sex-daters look for partners on the Internet: losers go online because they cannot meet anyone “in the real life,” and sex-daters because it’s a quick way to find someone just for sex and nothing else. While both categories certainly do exist, there is also a third one, and I think it may be the largest: decent men and women who are serious about meeting their special someone and creating a family. The reason they go online is usually because they know exactly what they want in their future life partner, and they do not wish to settle for less. Call them picky; they are. They realize that with the help of the Internet they will have the whole world at their fingertips, so they are simply expanding their search. Many of these people are hard-working professionals who have little time for “regular dating,” which is another reason why they turn to the Internet. Daily e-mailing and chatting does not take that much time and yet allows, if used wisely, to get to know the other person just as well as if you were going out and spending time together. In our case, we were both picky and busy. My husband lived in a small community where there were not many single women of the kind he would be interested in. I, on the contrary, lived in a huge city, but faced the same problem: somehow, there were not many single men around me who had the qualities I was looking for. I worked full time and overtime, leaving home at 7:00 AM and returning around 9:00 PM. My husband ran his own business and was often on the road, traveling for 3-5 days almost every week. As you see, we did not have much time for going out. Chose the right dating website
If you consider looking for your future life partner online, make sure you chose the right website. It is usually easy enough to see whether a particular website is for marriage minded people or sex-daters. Look at the people’s profiles, see what they are saying about themselves and the person they desire to meet. Their descriptions and stated priorities will speak for themselves. Of course, there is always a chance of a sex-dater posting an ad at a “serious” website, but usually, the two do not mix. Another thing I always advise is to chose a website that lets you fill out a detailed profile, not just a brief ad stating your age, height, weight, and hair color. The more you can share about yourself and read about your potential mate, the better. When good profiles are available, you will narrow down your search quickly and easily. You won’t even need to contact certain people to see whether you are compatible, you will read their information and know it right away if they are not someone you would be interested it. I had joined a dating website that offered a brief questionnaire and a detailed profile; you could start with the first and fill out the second later on. There were some folks there who never did that, they just filled out the questionnaire and never went any further. For me, those were the profiles to disregard automatically. It told me that those people were not serious enough about finding their other half, they did not care to give it the full effort.
Know what you want
When you have found the right website, the next step is, of course, to find the right person. Knowing exactly what you want in your future life partner helps a lot. Hopefully, you already know that. If you are not sure, you might have to sit down and think about it, very hard, before you start looking at the profiles. Here are some helpful questions to ask yourself: 0. What do you value the most in a man/woman? What qualities are you looking for? What type of a personality? Character? Mindset? 0. What about education? Would you prefer a college graduate? Would you only date someone with a college degree? 0. If you have never been married, is it important to you to find someone who has never been married as well? Would you consider someone who has been divorced? How about a widow/widower? 0. How do you feel about children? Do you want any? How many? How soon? Is it okay if your future spouse has children from previous marriage? 0. What about religion? Politics? 0. What about hobbies and sports? Would you like your mate to fully share your interests, or would you like someone whose interests are different than yours so that you both can learn something new? Which ones of your preferences are a must, and which ones are negotiable?
Internet matchmaking services seem to be everywhere. Do they work? What kinds of people are using them? Is it realistic to find your life partner this way? My husband and I had met on the Internet, so we are a living proof that Internet romance can be successful. I can honestly say that we are a perfect match. Yet, I am aware that there are disaster stories as well, from all kinds of shocking discoveries when two Internet daters meet in person to pure scams. With the anonymity the Internet offers, it is too easy for dishonesty to find its way into the process. We are often asked how we succeeded, and whether it was hard to weed out the wrong people and make the right choice. Many are curious about how we handled the long distance relationship and whether it is possible to really get to know someone through letters, e-mails, and phone calls. Many ask why we had turned to the Internet to begin with. Let me try to address all these questions one by one.
Who looks for romance online and why?
I have met people who think that only losers and sex-daters look for partners on the Internet: losers go online because they cannot meet anyone “in the real life,” and sex-daters because it’s a quick way to find someone just for sex and nothing else. While both categories certainly do exist, there is also a third one, and I think it may be the largest: decent men and women who are serious about meeting their special someone and creating a family. The reason they go online is usually because they know exactly what they want in their future life partner, and they do not wish to settle for less. Call them picky; they are. They realize that with the help of the Internet they will have the whole world at their fingertips, so they are simply expanding their search. Many of these people are hard-working professionals who have little time for “regular dating,” which is another reason why they turn to the Internet. Daily e-mailing and chatting does not take that much time and yet allows, if used wisely, to get to know the other person just as well as if you were going out and spending time together. In our case, we were both picky and busy. My husband lived in a small community where there were not many single women of the kind he would be interested in. I, on the contrary, lived in a huge city, but faced the same problem: somehow, there were not many single men around me who had the qualities I was looking for. I worked full time and overtime, leaving home at 7:00 AM and returning around 9:00 PM. My husband ran his own business and was often on the road, traveling for 3-5 days almost every week. As you see, we did not have much time for going out. Chose the right dating website
If you consider looking for your future life partner online, make sure you chose the right website. It is usually easy enough to see whether a particular website is for marriage minded people or sex-daters. Look at the people’s profiles, see what they are saying about themselves and the person they desire to meet. Their descriptions and stated priorities will speak for themselves. Of course, there is always a chance of a sex-dater posting an ad at a “serious” website, but usually, the two do not mix. Another thing I always advise is to chose a website that lets you fill out a detailed profile, not just a brief ad stating your age, height, weight, and hair color. The more you can share about yourself and read about your potential mate, the better. When good profiles are available, you will narrow down your search quickly and easily. You won’t even need to contact certain people to see whether you are compatible, you will read their information and know it right away if they are not someone you would be interested it. I had joined a dating website that offered a brief questionnaire and a detailed profile; you could start with the first and fill out the second later on. There were some folks there who never did that, they just filled out the questionnaire and never went any further. For me, those were the profiles to disregard automatically. It told me that those people were not serious enough about finding their other half, they did not care to give it the full effort.
Know what you want
When you have found the right website, the next step is, of course, to find the right person. Knowing exactly what you want in your future life partner helps a lot. Hopefully, you already know that. If you are not sure, you might have to sit down and think about it, very hard, before you start looking at the profiles. Here are some helpful questions to ask yourself: 0. What do you value the most in a man/woman? What qualities are you looking for? What type of a personality? Character? Mindset? 0. What about education? Would you prefer a college graduate? Would you only date someone with a college degree? 0. If you have never been married, is it important to you to find someone who has never been married as well? Would you consider someone who has been divorced? How about a widow/widower? 0. How do you feel about children? Do you want any? How many? How soon? Is it okay if your future spouse has children from previous marriage? 0. What about religion? Politics? 0. What about hobbies and sports? Would you like your mate to fully share your interests, or would you like someone whose interests are different than yours so that you both can learn something new? Which ones of your preferences are a must, and which ones are negotiable?
it was a JOKE but, it is the affectionate nick name your boyfriend had for me , he wanted me to call myself that not he mistress but the crushing rodent queen part with the catholic part attached, he wanted to talk about how exciting it was for him to watch me crush rodents either with my shoes or butt. and just cuz i went along does not make me sick. it was his thing. he asked me to pretend i liked it for him cuz it sexually excited him. i mostly didnt say anything i was so shocked
didn't you read the earlier postings how all of us had crushing nicknames. how can you act like you dont know about them did you think we just made that up seriously, did you? it isn't so. if you think it is so sick, how can you be with him?
and it is linz's fault is it? howie hit on her!!! you dont have the correct info, you dont. he lies to you. linz is a very nice young girl, she was 19 nanc, do you know how young that is? howie started it. i saw it all!!i am her friend too.......
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* Her Cruel Feet Crushing, trampling, and giantess fetish site featuring photo gallery of females stomping various objects including vegetables, books, cakes, frogs, and lizards. www.hercruelfeet.com
* Stomping Web Ring Join up here. www.webring.org/cgi-bin/webring?ring=stomp;addform
yeah, I thought nanc was going to start her own blog. what happened to that idea?
that a 50 year old man, maybe 48 at the time, hit on a 19 year old with this crushing fetish stuff is sick sick sick. and then to post her name on a support site via his new girlfriend is just abusive.
the first post said she flew in to see howie and that has just as much credibility as ip tracker. who knows?
Gosh, whomever is posting the same articles over and over. it is really annoying. Not me
you know folks, you attribute things to me that aren't me, including things about any of you, lindsay included. People are screwing with your heads in an effort to mess with mine, which doesn't really bother me because i know what i put up and what i don't. Typing is an EASY way to create false things. Don't YOU see , what a JOKE (you are right) this all has become.
nanc, if you had a daughter, say, 19. would you be concerned if a 48 year old man hit on her and chatted to her about having her torture animals for his sexual pleasure. an act that could land the young woman in jail for animal cruelty?
might you not try to warn other people. especially if you had direct evidence yourself and were not relying on heresay.
THAT NANC IS WHAT THE CONVERSATON ON THIS BLOG IS ALL ABOUT!!!!
It is NOT about YOU and your relationship with Howie, past, present or future.
Internet matchmaking services seem to be everywhere. Do they work? What kinds of people are using them? Is it realistic to find your life partner this way? My husband and I had met on the Internet, so we are a living proof that Internet romance can be successful. I can honestly say that we are a perfect match. Yet, I am aware that there are disaster stories as well, from all kinds of shocking discoveries when two Internet daters meet in person to pure scams. With the anonymity the Internet offers, it is too easy for dishonesty to find its way into the process. We are often asked how we succeeded, and whether it was hard to weed out the wrong people and make the right choice. Many are curious about how we handled the long distance relationship and whether it is possible to really get to know someone through letters, e-mails, and phone calls. Many ask why we had turned to the Internet to begin with. Let me try to address all these questions one by one.
Who looks for romance online and why?
I have met people who think that only losers and sex-daters look for partners on the Internet: losers go online because they cannot meet anyone “in the real life,” and sex-daters because it’s a quick way to find someone just for sex and nothing else. While both categories certainly do exist, there is also a third one, and I think it may be the largest: decent men and women who are serious about meeting their special someone and creating a family. The reason they go online is usually because they know exactly what they want in their future life partner, and they do not wish to settle for less. Call them picky; they are. They realize that with the help of the Internet they will have the whole world at their fingertips, so they are simply expanding their search. Many of these people are hard-working professionals who have little time for “regular dating,” which is another reason why they turn to the Internet. Daily e-mailing and chatting does not take that much time and yet allows, if used wisely, to get to know the other person just as well as if you were going out and spending time together. In our case, we were both picky and busy. My husband lived in a small community where there were not many single women of the kind he would be interested in. I, on the contrary, lived in a huge city, but faced the same problem: somehow, there were not many single men around me who had the qualities I was looking for. I worked full time and overtime, leaving home at 7:00 AM and returning around 9:00 PM. My husband ran his own business and was often on the road, traveling for 3-5 days almost every week. As you see, we did not have much time for going out. Chose the right dating website
If you consider looking for your future life partner online, make sure you chose the right website. It is usually easy enough to see whether a particular website is for marriage minded people or sex-daters. Look at the people’s profiles, see what they are saying about themselves and the person they desire to meet. Their descriptions and stated priorities will speak for themselves. Of course, there is always a chance of a sex-dater posting an ad at a “serious” website, but usually, the two do not mix. Another thing I always advise is to chose a website that lets you fill out a detailed profile, not just a brief ad stating your age, height, weight, and hair color. The more you can share about yourself and read about your potential mate, the better. When good profiles are available, you will narrow down your search quickly and easily. You won’t even need to contact certain people to see whether you are compatible, you will read their information and know it right away if they are not someone you would be interested it. I had joined a dating website that offered a brief questionnaire and a detailed profile; you could start with the first and fill out the second later on. There were some folks there who never did that, they just filled out the questionnaire and never went any further. For me, those were the profiles to disregard automatically. It told me that those people were not serious enough about finding their other half, they did not care to give it the full effort.
Know what you want
When you have found the right website, the next step is, of course, to find the right person. Knowing exactly what you want in your future life partner helps a lot. Hopefully, you already know that. If you are not sure, you might have to sit down and think about it, very hard, before you start looking at the profiles. Here are some helpful questions to ask yourself: 0. What do you value the most in a man/woman? What qualities are you looking for? What type of a personality? Character? Mindset? 0. What about education? Would you prefer a college graduate? Would you only date someone with a college degree? 0. If you have never been married, is it important to you to find someone who has never been married as well? Would you consider someone who has been divorced? How about a widow/widower? 0. How do you feel about children? Do you want any? How many? How soon? Is it okay if your future spouse has children from previous marriage? 0. What about religion? Politics? 0. What about hobbies and sports? Would you like your mate to fully share your interests, or would you like someone whose interests are different than yours so that you both can learn something new? Which ones of your preferences are a must, and which ones are negotiable?
July 24, 2007 10:53 PM
Anonymous said... Finding Your Love on the Internet
by Laura Lond June 17, 2005
Internet matchmaking services seem to be everywhere. Do they work? What kinds of people are using them? Is it realistic to find your life partner this way? My husband and I had met on the Internet, so we are a living proof that Internet romance can be successful. I can honestly say that we are a perfect match. Yet, I am aware that there are disaster stories as well, from all kinds of shocking discoveries when two Internet daters meet in person to pure scams. With the anonymity the Internet offers, it is too easy for dishonesty to find its way into the process. We are often asked how we succeeded, and whether it was hard to weed out the wrong people and make the right choice. Many are curious about how we handled the long distance relationship and whether it is possible to really get to know someone through letters, e-mails, and phone calls. Many ask why we had turned to the Internet to begin with. Let me try to address all these questions one by one.
Who looks for romance online and why?
I have met people who think that only losers and sex-daters look for partners on the Internet: losers go online because they cannot meet anyone “in the real life,” and sex-daters because it’s a quick way to find someone just for sex and nothing else. While both categories certainly do exist, there is also a third one, and I think it may be the largest: decent men and women who are serious about meeting their special someone and creating a family. The reason they go online is usually because they know exactly what they want in their future life partner, and they do not wish to settle for less. Call them picky; they are. They realize that with the help of the Internet they will have the whole world at their fingertips, so they are simply expanding their search. Many of these people are hard-working professionals who have little time for “regular dating,” which is another reason why they turn to the Internet. Daily e-mailing and chatting does not take that much time and yet allows, if used wisely, to get to know the other person just as well as if you were going out and spending time together. In our case, we were both picky and busy. My husband lived in a small community where there were not many single women of the kind he would be interested in. I, on the contrary, lived in a huge city, but faced the same problem: somehow, there were not many single men around me who had the qualities I was looking for. I worked full time and overtime, leaving home at 7:00 AM and returning around 9:00 PM. My husband ran his own business and was often on the road, traveling for 3-5 days almost every week. As you see, we did not have much time for going out. Chose the right dating website
If you consider looking for your future life partner online, make sure you chose the right website. It is usually easy enough to see whether a particular website is for marriage minded people or sex-daters. Look at the people’s profiles, see what they are saying about themselves and the person they desire to meet. Their descriptions and stated priorities will speak for themselves. Of course, there is always a chance of a sex-dater posting an ad at a “serious” website, but usually, the two do not mix. Another thing I always advise is to chose a website that lets you fill out a detailed profile, not just a brief ad stating your age, height, weight, and hair color. The more you can share about yourself and read about your potential mate, the better. When good profiles are available, you will narrow down your search quickly and easily. You won’t even need to contact certain people to see whether you are compatible, you will read their information and know it right away if they are not someone you would be interested it. I had joined a dating website that offered a brief questionnaire and a detailed profile; you could start with the first and fill out the second later on. There were some folks there who never did that, they just filled out the questionnaire and never went any further. For me, those were the profiles to disregard automatically. It told me that those people were not serious enough about finding their other half, they did not care to give it the full effort.
Know what you want
When you have found the right website, the next step is, of course, to find the right person. Knowing exactly what you want in your future life partner helps a lot. Hopefully, you already know that. If you are not sure, you might have to sit down and think about it, very hard, before you start looking at the profiles. Here are some helpful questions to ask yourself: 0. What do you value the most in a man/woman? What qualities are you looking for? What type of a personality? Character? Mindset? 0. What about education? Would you prefer a college graduate? Would you only date someone with a college degree? 0. If you have never been married, is it important to you to find someone who has never been married as well? Would you consider someone who has been divorced? How about a widow/widower? 0. How do you feel about children? Do you want any? How many? How soon? Is it okay if your future spouse has children from previous marriage? 0. What about religion? Politics? 0. What about hobbies and sports? Would you like your mate to fully share your interests, or would you like someone whose interests are different than yours so that you both can learn something new? Which ones of your preferences are a must, and which ones are negotiable?
PROBLEM WITH ONLINE DATING. Union Street Grill is the archetypical meeting place for the new Boston working class: the mid-level account executives and java programmers who've replaced the plant foremen and dock managers as the city's economic hoi polloi. The former boiler house's exposed brick, stained maple trim, and flat screen TVs dispense a comfort-food aura on par with any Applebee's although, to its credit, the Grill was here when the word "franchise" still implied the vote.
I press through the swinging doors to the bar with a weird mix of high-school anticipation and "the-fix-is-in" confidence and stand behind the patrons on the stools. In front of me is a shoulder-length brunette set forward on the edge of her seat to reach her beer - slim figure, tight sweater, denim-clad hips - the only one of her demographic at the bar. I order behind her hoping my voice will make her turn, but it does not. The bartender slides my drink across, takes my cash, and I step back.
This is where it will happen; this is where I'll know. I linger for a moment, sipping, wondering, then I tap her shoulder: "Lisa?"
She turns… not exactly like her JPEG, but… better in a different way; remarkable. Certainly remarkable.
And I think, "This is gonna be okay. This is definitely okay."
It's on.
I went on the first of my two career-total Internet dates in winter, 1998. Things were different. Only 30 million savvy Americans were surfing the Web then (versus 165 million today), and not many were doing so for leisure. The Web was bold, its corners less traveled.
I was working as an analyst for one of the market research firms that fueled the "irrational exuberance." I sold a private "thought leadership" newsletter to a single client, the European Union. As a gig, it was mint: 12 pages each month on the trends, customs, and protocols of U.S. Web users. No hard data, just commentary on the issues. The online personals -- or Internet dating -- were an easy target. The story wrote itself before it happened. I could envision the executive summary's closer before I even turned on my PC:
"Americans aren't afraid to enhance their personal lives with technology. An adventuresome and growing community exists. But it likely will be generations before the science fiction of truly virtual romance can be a reality in a visual and material culture."
Internet dating was different then too. The notions of JPEGs and detailed profiles were in their infancy. The service I investigated for the newsletter read like a digitized version of the newspaper classifieds: two brief lines with age, status/race/gender, location, and a seven- or eight-word quote. Scrolling through messages, it took me almost a page to find an F in the gender slot.
In spite of (or perhaps because of) the crude interface, the whole concept invoked a sense of lottery. I was in my mid-twenties. I was on the company dime. I had nothing to lose. Yet even armed with insouciance, I neglected to tell anyone the premise for my project. Peter Steiner's famous cartoon, "On the Internet, nobody knows you're a dog" epitomized the Web-related moral majority.
In her profile, she was 22 -- a transplanted southern belle at a software company in the Metrowest suburbs; she was 5'8" and blond. I was intrigued and optimistic -- imagining a Dixie-land designer taking her shot in Silicon Valley East. We met at a Chili's or Ruby Tuesday's or the like, in a town home to no one I knew.
In reality, she was a super-sized 5'8" and not exactly a designer. She worked the phones and the front door at a start-up after quitting school for her military boyfriend. "It's funny how you end up where you end up," she said. From the time her eyes met mine, they said she realized this was going nowhere. She ordered a lot of food and ate it - and I was happy she did. "Eventually I'll get back to 'Bama," she said, "but I couldn't bear to go back now. I just wouldn't feel right with people." She was gracious when I grabbed the check, and she asked the requisite, "Want me to give you a call?" When I mumbled my excuses her disappointment was not marked with shock -- more like predestination.
I drove back to my office to write the story, feeling shallow and, in a way, perturbed that the moral majority was right; the stereotype held true.
Mack the Knife.
Things have improved. I think. In 2002, Americans spent $300M on Internet dating services according to the Online Publishers Association. Run the math, and that means anywhere between 3 million and 12 million people hung out their emotional shingle last year. Put more bluntly: if you're between 20 and 34 years old, and you don't know anyone with an online personals account - well, you probably don't know your friends. Internet dating is not only condoned, it's the real new, new thing.
An old roommate of mine, Mack, began extolling the virtues of Internet dating last fall. He's a good-looking guy, a securities analyst, a standout Division I athlete back in college. He frequents private parties and charity events. He's also the epitome of alpha male. He likes control; he likes a challenge, and he likes to win. The online personals became his new proving ground.
It didn't take Mack long to build a system of templates to create "personalized" introductory and follow-up letters that he can send to women on an online dating service at a rate of 15-20 an hour . Likewise, he can model the responses that come back by race, religion, location and other criteria to determine who would be an emotional match and who would be an easy lay. He's added a height-weight ratio to counterbalance misleading JPEGs.
He justifies his system. "You're competing with probably a dozen guys for each girl," he told me. "Like anything in business, it's a numbers game. You make a certain number of cold calls, and some percentage of those calls turn into sales. Some smaller percentage of those sales turn into the type of customer you build a lasting relationship with."
For Mack, it's a game to be won or lost. It requires training and strategy. "When I first started, I needed to improve my writing… to be witty and pithy. It was essential for winning the attentions of girls who get dozens of e-mails from other guys. Strangely, it's transferred into my real life. I can bang out a research brief much faster and as a more entertaining read than I could before I started Internet dating."
Back in the fall, Mack implored me, "With your writing skills and your wealth of pop trivia, you'd be a natural. You're single; get in the game."
But something wouldn't let me pull the trigger.
YOU CAN'T MEET GIRLS AT THE SUPERMARKET.
Not too many weeks later, a high school friend called me from New York. He'd met someone. She was perfect. He fired off an e-mail with some pictures; said he met her in the grocery store. I was amazed. The girl was more than kind of cute; she was striking. I wanted to hear more. In my entire dating life I hadn't met anyone in the grocery store. Then his story started to break down; the details didn't gel. He buckled under the questioning, the truth spilling out like trade secrets after the fourth margarita.
"How long have you been into this?" I asked.
"With this girl, or in general?"
"In general."
"I don't know. Maybe six months -- maybe a little longer."
In less than one year, one of my closest friends had met a dozen women via the Web -- live and in person (many for one night only). He'd chatted with double that and never followed through. He had serious ambitions for the girl he was dating now. No one in our crew had any idea, and only at this point was he ready to go public.
Maybe Mack was right. I struggled with my existing impression of Internet dating. I saw pictures or met women my friends were dating. The curiosity finally overwhelmed me. The sense of lottery was still there, as was another feeling that would take me a while to identify…
After New Year's I logged onto a personals service, created a profile, posted a pic, and tossed in the ante for a subscription.
As part of any online profile, you've gotta produce your "goods." Every service demands enough identifying data to present you to a prospect with more than a modicum of accuracy, and if you want some play, you'd better post a JPEG. My goods are as follows:
6'1"/185
Blond hair/blue eyes
32 years old
Hobbies = running, indie music, snowboarding, lots of reading, and darts
I'll never replace Brad Pitt on People's most beautiful list, but I've never been at a loss for female companionship either. I'm not shy. I am more than comfortable stepping up to the plate in the flesh.
WOMEN WEAR THE PANTS ONLINE.
As I benchmarked my goods against the cyber suitors with whom I thought I'd be contending, I came to a realization. Aside from the simple curiosity and the gamble, the feeling that ultimately renewed my interest in Internet dating was of a grander scale: unadulterated romanticism. Because although I look good on the proverbial paper, a given truth remains: with all the women I'd met and the myriad relationships I'd entered and exited during my 20s, I had never found one where the bond could not be broken -- through a flaw of hers, or mine, or us both. Maybe, after five years of refinement and growing cultural acceptance, the Internet was the medium through which I would overcome the inevitable processes of elimination.
When meeting a girl in a bar or at a party, the process starts with the attraction; it ends with the fatal flaw of personality. But the Internet could flip the scenario: unveil the woman who wouldn't drive me crazy, and then make the equation binary -- we'd have an attraction or we wouldn't.
I stepped in tentatively, refusing to post my profile or JPEG publicly. I wanted to hunt, not be hunted -- and more honestly, I couldn't completely release the stigma from the supposedly defunct Web moral majority. I took Mack's assessment of my writing and my interests to heart. I sent out a handful of messages to only the most attractive women on the service. In a few cases I spent the better part of an hour crafting an undeniable proposition. I never doubted my success. I waited for the replies.
One thing hasn't changed since 1998. Women are the market makers in the online personals. Most receive 20 e-mails a day. A lot men will get more reaction from placing paper notes in bottles and heaving them into the sea. Suddenly Mack's mass-mail madness had some merit.
I received one response to my queries… and the ensuing e-mail thread quickly died on the vine. Apparently a digital Don Juan, I was not.
I hit my frustration and boredom levels in short order. Total messages sent: 5 or 6. Total days invested: about 14. I couldn't bring myself to daisy-cutter the database with templates and form letters to women I would never date more than once (if at all) - and even then only numbed by a six-pack. I made no conscious decision to quit; after two weeks, I gradually gave up logging in. The unofficial analysis: Internet dating was improving, but still not ready for primetime; like many other activities, old-fashion ways were still more efficient than the digital ones.
I KEEP TRYING TO GET OUT, BUT THEY PULL ME BACK IN.
What's making the Internet dating industry the Web's real new, new thing is not only the amusement and, arguably, valuable service it provides; it's an uncanny marketing savvy. Months have passed since my hasty disenchantment with Internet dating. It's now summer, and I decide to terminate my service. When I log in to remove any trace of my digital existence, I am greeted by a handful of newly added prospects. The gimmick works…
Her goods:
5'8"/135
Brown hair/green eyes
27 years old
Hobbies = running, music, soccer, darts
The darts snare me. The running and music, although a match, are fairly de rigueur in most hobbies lists online - but a woman who plays darts is original. Her JPEG - tall and rakish, standing in front of a dart board with a sexy blond friend - doesn't hurt her promotional effort. Her personal essay, while not exceedingly clever, is just vague enough to be intriguing.
I almost hit "reply" but I think better of it. I happen to be at my office, with no time to begin a flirt session. Then I think again: A) This girl is not going to respond to my reply, and B) I don't get any money back for the subscription I bought 5 months ago. It's that 1998 feeling of nothing to lose.
I do it: a three- or four-liner, frankly not all that entertaining, challenging her to a dart game. I log off. If she's interested I'll get an e-mail. Nothing turns up for a while, and I forget about it. I go on about my business at the office and preparing for my weekend.
It's Sunday. I have a lady friend in town for the weekend - a real-time example of another relationship that started with some promise and is eroding before my very eyes because of differences of opinion and dwindling attraction. As she showers I sneak downstairs to check my e-mail. Tucked among the spam is an automated response from the online personals service: User #LM75 has sent you a message. I click the link to view it.
Her name is Lisa. Her reply is succinct, playing heavily on our common interest in running. Her last sentence is an invitation to e-mail her at her personal address, one of the subtle ways an online player extends a branch of trust. Later that afternoon I sit down to address her.
WHO IS LISA?
For the next few weeks, we trade messages about three times a day. It starts as small talk, but really it's careful personal investigation. We talk about our collegiate sports experiences; we talk about music; we talk about grad school, which she is nearly finished with, and teaching - the gig that pays her bills. She writes well; she challenges me; she has a strong command of sarcasm. Our similarities begin to surface. Her parents have retired in upstate New York, about 15 miles from where I grew up and where my family still lives. She's moving across town to my neighborhood in Boston. She likes reruns of Miami Vice.
I ask her out. She declines. Too soon. She's still testing me for potential psychoses. I'm not dissuaded; the e-mail banter is enjoyable enough, and frankly I'm not interested in pushing it. Why spoil the sense of romanticism that increases like inebriation -- each exchange another drink in the bloodstream? Anyway, I'm leaving that night to spend the weekend with friends at the beach.
We pick up the thread when I return. The first half of the week is a flurry of barbs, sarcasm and more small talk. We spend one evening trading Top-5 lists until well past midnight. She confides to me some of the weird e-mails she's been getting from other guys replying to her ad, making particular light of a guy who itemizes his house in the Hamptons and his box seats at Fenway. She names him Pravda Boy (after an overrated night club in town).
On Thursday she pulls the reversal:
"So when are you going to ask me out? I'm beginning to think you're playing hard to get…"
"I tried this path once already, remember?" I reply. "Why don't you ask me?"
"I'm bad at making decisions," she answers. "Now you're giving me the first-date jitters already."
I ignore this just to string it along. Over the next several days we debate about the upcoming date. Lisa starts asking more serious questions, whether I have any drug habits or other skeletons to expose. I don't, and I'm back to the beach house for the weekend, so our thread is going on hold. We set Wednesday night as the time for our meeting.
I return home Sunday night to find several messages from my -- my what? What is Lisa in the taxonomy of acquaintances, lovers and the spectrum in between? The first is a multi-page confession of her planned Friday night. She actually had scheduled a date with Pravda Boy; he stood her up. At midnight she was home alone e-mailing me with tales of a traumatic recent breakup and general self loathing. Not long after midnight she e-mails me again to apologize for whining. Immediately after, she writes again to apologize for acting like Mikey in Swingers -- contacting me over and over without response. She gently requests that I agree not to meet anyone else before our date on Wednesday.
From any woman I have dated in the past half decade, this behavior would annoy me or scare me or both, but as I sit at my desk on Sunday night I feel… relieved. I start thinking about things like the convenience of holidays and the proximity of our parents.
I reply to allay her concerns and to give her a ration of shit for considering a date with another guy. We laugh it off. At some point she broaches a topic we have suspiciously avoided: What if we meet and it doesn't work? What happens to this daily chatter that we've both come to rely on?
I'm sure things will work out. In three weeks, I've seen no warning sign. But my mind starts wandering… 5'8"/135, is that big for a girl? I look at the JPEG again. She looks great, but the photo is kind of dark. There has to be a catch. And I have my own problems. In a stupor during the weekend, I burned the skin off my lip on some late-night pizza at the shore. What will it look like by Wednesday? Maybe not good.
On Tuesday I propose canceling. She can go either way.
WILL YOU STILL E-MAIL TOMORROW?
Wednesday morning things are fine. I e-mail, tell her we should go for it; I'll meet her at Union St. at 8:30. I leave my cell number if she has any problems. When she calls in the afternoon to confirm, it's the first time I ever hear her voice. Pressing "end" I contemplate the problems. Maybe she used a phony picture; maybe she can write, but she won't be able to talk. For the first time in seven years I am hoping for something to work out.
Her picture portrayed a very cosmopolitan figure, but the woman in front of me looks innocent, almost girlish. This does not diminish her attractiveness, her enticing physique. We stare at each other for a moment, neither betraying any emotion. What do we do now? Shake hands? Hug? We've known each other for weeks, and it seems longer, but… We shake hands and head upstairs to the dart board.
Our conversation consists of sentence fragments, continuing topics we started during e-mail exchanges long before. The dart board is occupied, so we play pool. We're so competitive during the game we barely speak. She wins. (I'm legitimately shocked; I play a lot of pool...) I order another round of beer, and the dart board frees up.
We pair up with another couple -- teachers -- and Lisa makes effortless conversation with them. The game ends, and again we're alone… and out of nowhere I feel it happen. I hadn't picked up on it during the games, but… somehow I'm blowing this. We aren't making eye contact. I run a test: I offer to get another round and brush her arm as I make for the bar. She recoils as if bitten. When I return, I offer to grab a table, to just sit and chill. She'd rather play more pool. I almost protest, think better of it, and we play.
"I think I've gotta get going," she announces when the game ends. "I'd like to hit a video store to pick something up for class tomorrow."
I really have nothing to say to this. I'm still in disbelief, tongue tied like a rookie.
We're outside her car. She turns to climb in without a good-bye -- her actions rushed.
"Hey," I interrupt her. She stops, turns to face me. We're standing six feet apart.
"Hey what?"
"Well, what do you think?" I already know what she thinks. I've played her part too many times -- but I ask anyway.
She stares blankly. No reply.
"I wish I wasn't this old," I say under my breath barely realizing it slips out.
"Old?" she asks.
"Nothing; I didn't mean what you think... So, do you wanna do this again? Are you just not diggin' me? Doesn't matter either way, but I'd like to know."
"Do what?"
"I dunno, this… go out?"
She pauses. "Why don't you e-mail me tomorrow?"
"Sure. But that's not going to change the question."
"Just e-mail me tomorrow."
I send the e-mail first thing in the morning. The question doesn't change. Toward the end of the day I get her response:
Thanks for the darts and pool last night... As for "not diggin' you," that's not it at all. I think I'm just not ready to start seeing people yet. My boyfriend and I broke up at the end of April after two years together. And we were living together when it ended. It's been tough, and I'm beginning to realize that I need to spend a little time on my own for a while.
Anyway, I definitely enjoyed e-mailing with you. You're an awesome writer... made me laugh a lot. Best of luck.
It's a bull shit send off, spurious, but even before I got her response, I had been taking stock. I've had a long career. I've dated prettier women, had deeper and more complicated relationships. But after this I feel hollow, unfamiliar, as if the world has moved in reverse. And it has. The Internet worked; I just didn't wind up winning.
I try and put this ethereal and ephemeral interaction in its proper context. By real-world terms, it is nothing, but the weeks preceding the meeting distort the magnitude of the event. And there's the sudden lack of honesty that stains her final message. I don't truly feel jilted; it's more… lost opportunity.
I guess if we've learned anything since 1998, we've learned the Internet can do that.
Online dating has shed its stigma as matchmaker for the awkward (Goodwin 1990) to claim a new prominence in the social lives of millions of users. In August 2003 alone, 40 million unique users visited online dating sites in the United States alone, according to U.S. News & World Report -- that's about half the number of single adults in the U.S. Given their prevalence, it seems likely that online dating systems have begun to influence not only individual lives but also cultural notions of love and attraction with their overflowing catalogues of potential partners and their sometimes idiosyncratic choices of personal characteristics to highlight. But despite the incredible number of people using these services, we know little about how users perceive each other and interact through these mediated channels, or how such technologies might affect their selection of partners for dating, sex, and marriage.
Millennia of evolution have left humans with a set of perceptual and interpretive processes that allow us efficiently to identify desirable potential partners -- what happens when we go online and forfeit most of the sensory channels that drive this well-refined offline process? How can we improve the design of online dating systems to help users make better-informed decisions about whom they wish to contact and follow those decisions with effective communication? Moreover, might what we learn about searching and matching in a romantic context generalize to non-romantic situations, like matching potential employees with employers? To answer these questions, we have undertaken a research agenda with an integrative, multi-method approach grounded in social psychological theory and powered by data mining, statistical analysis, and interactive visualization.
1. datingdirect.com Primarily aimed at singles in the UK, Dating Direct has almost a million members and is the biggest personals site in the country. Their regular member parties, held not just in London, are fantastic fun and give you the opportunity to meet loads of nice people in person rather than just online. If you live in the UK I'd highly recommend checking this one out.
2. simplyclicked.com Simply Clicked.com is a completely free online dating service. There are no catches - simply choose a username and start meeting and chatting to other interesting singles in your area straight away. It really is a breath of fresh air to find a good dating site that isn’t just trying to part you from your money! For this reason I have made Simply Clicked.com the number two dating site in my list.
3. friendfinder.com Friend Finder is one of the best dating sites you will find. The registration procedure is clear and simple and once you have joined there are lots of interesting profiles to browse through, all with pictures. I quickly found many people I was interested in getting to know and I highly recommend you give it a try. It won't even cost you anything as it's free to join.
4. date.com Described as "the community with millions of singles", date.com does not disappoint. Once you find someone you are interested in, simply click the "show interest" link and they will be informed of your interest. If they are interested in you then get chatting and see what happens! I also liked the community area featuring dating tips and a whole host of other interesting stuff.
5. matchmaker.com Matchmaker has been around for a long time and is owned by Lycos so as you would expect it's a very well developed site. I found the registration process was quick and easy and I was soon searching through lots of picture personals in my area. A nice touch is being able to record a voice greeting.
6. singlescrowd.com Singles Crowd is one of the biggest and best places to visit online. Featuring personalized and compatibility matching, a relationship analyst and also their "Chatterbox" instant messaging, it really is a fun place to check out singles in your area. I've met some lovely people here and I highly recommend you give it a try too.
7. adultfriendfinder.com If you are looking for something more intimate than just a date then you should check out Adult Friend Finder. Here you will find thousands of like minded adults with sexy photos, seeking affairs, discrete relationships and sexual encounters. Best of all it's free to register so what are you waiting for?
8. matchamerica.com As the name suggests, Match America caters for single people in the United States. I found it takes a little while to register and "get going" on this site but it was well worth the effort invested once I started browsing all the other great profiles.
9. mingles.com I was very impressed by this site, it is packed full of features as you would expect of a site that makes it into my top ten. I was especially impressed by the advice section which gave me some great tips on posting a better profile and advice on what to wear for a date.
10. dreammatches.com Dream Matches is a 100% FREE exclusive dating club for a select group of very hot singles. Anyone can apply to join, but you have to be voted in by a panel of judges, that way only the best looking people can sign up. Once inside there is video chat, instant messaging, online games, new mail alerts, file sharing, the list goes on! And don't forget .... only the hottest people!
11. dreammates.com There are three communities to choose from at Dreammates, namely "Dating", "Romance" and "Intimate". So whether you are looking to just hang out, for a serious relationship or for an intimate encounter, there will be something to suit you here. As you would expect, the site is very fast to load and a breeze to navigate.
12. dreamdates.com A very slick and comprehensive site, the sign up procedure was painless and I found there was quite an even ratio of men to women. The "Click2Talk™" instant messenger made chatting to other people very easy to do. I thought that the "featured members" on the homepage was quite a nice touch too.
13. match.com I first came across Match.com some time ago and it just keeps on getting better. Lots of good quality singles with photos and I loved the fact that you can include up to ten pictures on your profile. Again, its free to register so what do you have to lose?
14. jdate.com A dating site for the Jewish singles community. This site is not just about dating, it also features advice and details of upcoming events. The dating search facility was very good and the site generally looks very well thought out.
15. foreignrelations.com A superb site with the emphasis being on meeting Russian, Latin, Asian and European women from around the world. Simply search the ads using any criteria you wish and add any profiles that you like to your basket. When you are finished visit the checkout and pay for the contact details of the ladies that you like.
16. outpersonals.com If you are looking for a gay partner then look no further than Outpersonals. I had trouble finding a good site catering for same sex match making, I kept getting routed to sites that were basically just trying to peddle porn. Here you will find a large picture personals section and several chat rooms.
17. americansingles.com I was very impressed by this site catering primarily for single people in America. As well as the usual ability to search or browse profiles, you are able to use instant messaging and real time chat to communicate with other members.
18. blacksingles.com Specifically catering for people of color, blacksingles.com is an on-line community, not just another dating site. I was quickly able to search through the personal ads and find some good matches, with and without pictures.
19. cyberdating.ca At this Canadian singles site there is no need to register or login, just search the personals for the person you want. An excellent site which is very easy to use. What a shame I don't live in Canada!
20. annabarmina.com This must be one of the best sites for meeting women from the former Soviet Union that I have found. A quick search returned almost 10,000 pictures of ladies looking for marriage to European and American men. Don't miss this site if you're looking for a Russian bride!
21. veggiedate.com Vegetarian? If you don't eat meat then veggiedate.com could help you find a partner with similar tastes. The personals search was quick and easy to use and you could specify as many or as few criteria as you wanted. If I wasn't so fond of hamburgers I'd try my luck finding a date on here.
22. meet-an-inmate.com Would you like to communicate with female inmates? This site has lots of lonely ladies who are paying a price for their crimes and would like to communicate with people from the outside world. Browse the picture personals and pay $3 for each person you would like to write to. Unusual concept!
23. advanceddegreessingles.com A matchmaking service for singles with masters degrees and above. A very nice site although I don't qualify as I had trouble even spelling the url! If you're intellectual then this site is for you.
24. lovebrowser.com Lovebrowser is graphically well designed but did seem to run a little slowly when I visited, especially when trying to perform a search. It was a very simple site to use although it doesn't tell you whether adverts include pictures or not before you click on them.
25. singleswithscruples.com Very quick and easy to use site. The graphics are excellent without being "over the top" and don't take ages to download. The search is quick and easy and members' profiles are displayed clearly and concisely in a well thought out format.
nanc, if you had a daughter, say, 19. would you be concerned if a 48 year old man hit on her and chatted to her about having her torture animals for his sexual pleasure. an act that could land the young woman in jail for animal cruelty?
might you not try to warn other people. especially if you had direct evidence yourself and were not relying on heresay.
THAT NANC IS WHAT THE CONVERSATON ON THIS BLOG IS ALL ABOUT!!!!
It is NOT about YOU and your relationship with Howie, past, present or future.
Thanks for the article. This 19 year old just might need this one -
22. meet-an-inmate.com Would you like to communicate with female inmates? This site has lots of lonely ladies who are paying a price for their crimes and would like to communicate with people from the outside world. Browse the picture personals and pay $3 for each person you would like to write to. Unusual concept!
PROBLEM WITH ONLINE DATING. Union Street Grill is the archetypical meeting place for the new Boston working class: the mid-level account executives and java programmers who've replaced the plant foremen and dock managers as the city's economic hoi polloi. The former boiler house's exposed brick, stained maple trim, and flat screen TVs dispense a comfort-food aura on par with any Applebee's although, to its credit, the Grill was here when the word "franchise" still implied the vote.
I press through the swinging doors to the bar with a weird mix of high-school anticipation and "the-fix-is-in" confidence and stand behind the patrons on the stools. In front of me is a shoulder-length brunette set forward on the edge of her seat to reach her beer - slim figure, tight sweater, denim-clad hips - the only one of her demographic at the bar. I order behind her hoping my voice will make her turn, but it does not. The bartender slides my drink across, takes my cash, and I step back.
This is where it will happen; this is where I'll know. I linger for a moment, sipping, wondering, then I tap her shoulder: "Lisa?"
She turns… not exactly like her JPEG, but… better in a different way; remarkable. Certainly remarkable.
And I think, "This is gonna be okay. This is definitely okay."
It's on.
I went on the first of my two career-total Internet dates in winter, 1998. Things were different. Only 30 million savvy Americans were surfing the Web then (versus 165 million today), and not many were doing so for leisure. The Web was bold, its corners less traveled.
I was working as an analyst for one of the market research firms that fueled the "irrational exuberance." I sold a private "thought leadership" newsletter to a single client, the European Union. As a gig, it was mint: 12 pages each month on the trends, customs, and protocols of U.S. Web users. No hard data, just commentary on the issues. The online personals -- or Internet dating -- were an easy target. The story wrote itself before it happened. I could envision the executive summary's closer before I even turned on my PC:
"Americans aren't afraid to enhance their personal lives with technology. An adventuresome and growing community exists. But it likely will be generations before the science fiction of truly virtual romance can be a reality in a visual and material culture."
Internet dating was different then too. The notions of JPEGs and detailed profiles were in their infancy. The service I investigated for the newsletter read like a digitized version of the newspaper classifieds: two brief lines with age, status/race/gender, location, and a seven- or eight-word quote. Scrolling through messages, it took me almost a page to find an F in the gender slot.
In spite of (or perhaps because of) the crude interface, the whole concept invoked a sense of lottery. I was in my mid-twenties. I was on the company dime. I had nothing to lose. Yet even armed with insouciance, I neglected to tell anyone the premise for my project. Peter Steiner's famous cartoon, "On the Internet, nobody knows you're a dog" epitomized the Web-related moral majority.
In her profile, she was 22 -- a transplanted southern belle at a software company in the Metrowest suburbs; she was 5'8" and blond. I was intrigued and optimistic -- imagining a Dixie-land designer taking her shot in Silicon Valley East. We met at a Chili's or Ruby Tuesday's or the like, in a town home to no one I knew.
In reality, she was a super-sized 5'8" and not exactly a designer. She worked the phones and the front door at a start-up after quitting school for her military boyfriend. "It's funny how you end up where you end up," she said. From the time her eyes met mine, they said she realized this was going nowhere. She ordered a lot of food and ate it - and I was happy she did. "Eventually I'll get back to 'Bama," she said, "but I couldn't bear to go back now. I just wouldn't feel right with people." She was gracious when I grabbed the check, and she asked the requisite, "Want me to give you a call?" When I mumbled my excuses her disappointment was not marked with shock -- more like predestination.
I drove back to my office to write the story, feeling shallow and, in a way, perturbed that the moral majority was right; the stereotype held true.
Mack the Knife.
Things have improved. I think. In 2002, Americans spent $300M on Internet dating services according to the Online Publishers Association. Run the math, and that means anywhere between 3 million and 12 million people hung out their emotional shingle last year. Put more bluntly: if you're between 20 and 34 years old, and you don't know anyone with an online personals account - well, you probably don't know your friends. Internet dating is not only condoned, it's the real new, new thing.
An old roommate of mine, Mack, began extolling the virtues of Internet dating last fall. He's a good-looking guy, a securities analyst, a standout Division I athlete back in college. He frequents private parties and charity events. He's also the epitome of alpha male. He likes control; he likes a challenge, and he likes to win. The online personals became his new proving ground.
It didn't take Mack long to build a system of templates to create "personalized" introductory and follow-up letters that he can send to women on an online dating service at a rate of 15-20 an hour . Likewise, he can model the responses that come back by race, religion, location and other criteria to determine who would be an emotional match and who would be an easy lay. He's added a height-weight ratio to counterbalance misleading JPEGs.
He justifies his system. "You're competing with probably a dozen guys for each girl," he told me. "Like anything in business, it's a numbers game. You make a certain number of cold calls, and some percentage of those calls turn into sales. Some smaller percentage of those sales turn into the type of customer you build a lasting relationship with."
For Mack, it's a game to be won or lost. It requires training and strategy. "When I first started, I needed to improve my writing… to be witty and pithy. It was essential for winning the attentions of girls who get dozens of e-mails from other guys. Strangely, it's transferred into my real life. I can bang out a research brief much faster and as a more entertaining read than I could before I started Internet dating."
Back in the fall, Mack implored me, "With your writing skills and your wealth of pop trivia, you'd be a natural. You're single; get in the game."
But something wouldn't let me pull the trigger.
YOU CAN'T MEET GIRLS AT THE SUPERMARKET.
Not too many weeks later, a high school friend called me from New York. He'd met someone. She was perfect. He fired off an e-mail with some pictures; said he met her in the grocery store. I was amazed. The girl was more than kind of cute; she was striking. I wanted to hear more. In my entire dating life I hadn't met anyone in the grocery store. Then his story started to break down; the details didn't gel. He buckled under the questioning, the truth spilling out like trade secrets after the fourth margarita.
"How long have you been into this?" I asked.
"With this girl, or in general?"
"In general."
"I don't know. Maybe six months -- maybe a little longer."
In less than one year, one of my closest friends had met a dozen women via the Web -- live and in person (many for one night only). He'd chatted with double that and never followed through. He had serious ambitions for the girl he was dating now. No one in our crew had any idea, and only at this point was he ready to go public.
Maybe Mack was right. I struggled with my existing impression of Internet dating. I saw pictures or met women my friends were dating. The curiosity finally overwhelmed me. The sense of lottery was still there, as was another feeling that would take me a while to identify…
After New Year's I logged onto a personals service, created a profile, posted a pic, and tossed in the ante for a subscription.
As part of any online profile, you've gotta produce your "goods." Every service demands enough identifying data to present you to a prospect with more than a modicum of accuracy, and if you want some play, you'd better post a JPEG. My goods are as follows:
6'1"/185
Blond hair/blue eyes
32 years old
Hobbies = running, indie music, snowboarding, lots of reading, and darts
I'll never replace Brad Pitt on People's most beautiful list, but I've never been at a loss for female companionship either. I'm not shy. I am more than comfortable stepping up to the plate in the flesh.
WOMEN WEAR THE PANTS ONLINE.
As I benchmarked my goods against the cyber suitors with whom I thought I'd be contending, I came to a realization. Aside from the simple curiosity and the gamble, the feeling that ultimately renewed my interest in Internet dating was of a grander scale: unadulterated romanticism. Because although I look good on the proverbial paper, a given truth remains: with all the women I'd met and the myriad relationships I'd entered and exited during my 20s, I had never found one where the bond could not be broken -- through a flaw of hers, or mine, or us both. Maybe, after five years of refinement and growing cultural acceptance, the Internet was the medium through which I would overcome the inevitable processes of elimination.
When meeting a girl in a bar or at a party, the process starts with the attraction; it ends with the fatal flaw of personality. But the Internet could flip the scenario: unveil the woman who wouldn't drive me crazy, and then make the equation binary -- we'd have an attraction or we wouldn't.
I stepped in tentatively, refusing to post my profile or JPEG publicly. I wanted to hunt, not be hunted -- and more honestly, I couldn't completely release the stigma from the supposedly defunct Web moral majority. I took Mack's assessment of my writing and my interests to heart. I sent out a handful of messages to only the most attractive women on the service. In a few cases I spent the better part of an hour crafting an undeniable proposition. I never doubted my success. I waited for the replies.
One thing hasn't changed since 1998. Women are the market makers in the online personals. Most receive 20 e-mails a day. A lot men will get more reaction from placing paper notes in bottles and heaving them into the sea. Suddenly Mack's mass-mail madness had some merit.
I received one response to my queries… and the ensuing e-mail thread quickly died on the vine. Apparently a digital Don Juan, I was not.
I hit my frustration and boredom levels in short order. Total messages sent: 5 or 6. Total days invested: about 14. I couldn't bring myself to daisy-cutter the database with templates and form letters to women I would never date more than once (if at all) - and even then only numbed by a six-pack. I made no conscious decision to quit; after two weeks, I gradually gave up logging in. The unofficial analysis: Internet dating was improving, but still not ready for primetime; like many other activities, old-fashion ways were still more efficient than the digital ones.
I KEEP TRYING TO GET OUT, BUT THEY PULL ME BACK IN.
What's making the Internet dating industry the Web's real new, new thing is not only the amusement and, arguably, valuable service it provides; it's an uncanny marketing savvy. Months have passed since my hasty disenchantment with Internet dating. It's now summer, and I decide to terminate my service. When I log in to remove any trace of my digital existence, I am greeted by a handful of newly added prospects. The gimmick works…
Her goods:
5'8"/135
Brown hair/green eyes
27 years old
Hobbies = running, music, soccer, darts
The darts snare me. The running and music, although a match, are fairly de rigueur in most hobbies lists online - but a woman who plays darts is original. Her JPEG - tall and rakish, standing in front of a dart board with a sexy blond friend - doesn't hurt her promotional effort. Her personal essay, while not exceedingly clever, is just vague enough to be intriguing.
I almost hit "reply" but I think better of it. I happen to be at my office, with no time to begin a flirt session. Then I think again: A) This girl is not going to respond to my reply, and B) I don't get any money back for the subscription I bought 5 months ago. It's that 1998 feeling of nothing to lose.
I do it: a three- or four-liner, frankly not all that entertaining, challenging her to a dart game. I log off. If she's interested I'll get an e-mail. Nothing turns up for a while, and I forget about it. I go on about my business at the office and preparing for my weekend.
It's Sunday. I have a lady friend in town for the weekend - a real-time example of another relationship that started with some promise and is eroding before my very eyes because of differences of opinion and dwindling attraction. As she showers I sneak downstairs to check my e-mail. Tucked among the spam is an automated response from the online personals service: User #LM75 has sent you a message. I click the link to view it.
Her name is Lisa. Her reply is succinct, playing heavily on our common interest in running. Her last sentence is an invitation to e-mail her at her personal address, one of the subtle ways an online player extends a branch of trust. Later that afternoon I sit down to address her.
WHO IS LISA?
For the next few weeks, we trade messages about three times a day. It starts as small talk, but really it's careful personal investigation. We talk about our collegiate sports experiences; we talk about music; we talk about grad school, which she is nearly finished with, and teaching - the gig that pays her bills. She writes well; she challenges me; she has a strong command of sarcasm. Our similarities begin to surface. Her parents have retired in upstate New York, about 15 miles from where I grew up and where my family still lives. She's moving across town to my neighborhood in Boston. She likes reruns of Miami Vice.
I ask her out. She declines. Too soon. She's still testing me for potential psychoses. I'm not dissuaded; the e-mail banter is enjoyable enough, and frankly I'm not interested in pushing it. Why spoil the sense of romanticism that increases like inebriation -- each exchange another drink in the bloodstream? Anyway, I'm leaving that night to spend the weekend with friends at the beach.
We pick up the thread when I return. The first half of the week is a flurry of barbs, sarcasm and more small talk. We spend one evening trading Top-5 lists until well past midnight. She confides to me some of the weird e-mails she's been getting from other guys replying to her ad, making particular light of a guy who itemizes his house in the Hamptons and his box seats at Fenway. She names him Pravda Boy (after an overrated night club in town).
On Thursday she pulls the reversal:
"So when are you going to ask me out? I'm beginning to think you're playing hard to get…"
"I tried this path once already, remember?" I reply. "Why don't you ask me?"
"I'm bad at making decisions," she answers. "Now you're giving me the first-date jitters already."
I ignore this just to string it along. Over the next several days we debate about the upcoming date. Lisa starts asking more serious questions, whether I have any drug habits or other skeletons to expose. I don't, and I'm back to the beach house for the weekend, so our thread is going on hold. We set Wednesday night as the time for our meeting.
I return home Sunday night to find several messages from my -- my what? What is Lisa in the taxonomy of acquaintances, lovers and the spectrum in between? The first is a multi-page confession of her planned Friday night. She actually had scheduled a date with Pravda Boy; he stood her up. At midnight she was home alone e-mailing me with tales of a traumatic recent breakup and general self loathing. Not long after midnight she e-mails me again to apologize for whining. Immediately after, she writes again to apologize for acting like Mikey in Swingers -- contacting me over and over without response. She gently requests that I agree not to meet anyone else before our date on Wednesday.
From any woman I have dated in the past half decade, this behavior would annoy me or scare me or both, but as I sit at my desk on Sunday night I feel… relieved. I start thinking about things like the convenience of holidays and the proximity of our parents.
I reply to allay her concerns and to give her a ration of shit for considering a date with another guy. We laugh it off. At some point she broaches a topic we have suspiciously avoided: What if we meet and it doesn't work? What happens to this daily chatter that we've both come to rely on?
I'm sure things will work out. In three weeks, I've seen no warning sign. But my mind starts wandering… 5'8"/135, is that big for a girl? I look at the JPEG again. She looks great, but the photo is kind of dark. There has to be a catch. And I have my own problems. In a stupor during the weekend, I burned the skin off my lip on some late-night pizza at the shore. What will it look like by Wednesday? Maybe not good.
On Tuesday I propose canceling. She can go either way.
WILL YOU STILL E-MAIL TOMORROW?
Wednesday morning things are fine. I e-mail, tell her we should go for it; I'll meet her at Union St. at 8:30. I leave my cell number if she has any problems. When she calls in the afternoon to confirm, it's the first time I ever hear her voice. Pressing "end" I contemplate the problems. Maybe she used a phony picture; maybe she can write, but she won't be able to talk. For the first time in seven years I am hoping for something to work out.
Her picture portrayed a very cosmopolitan figure, but the woman in front of me looks innocent, almost girlish. This does not diminish her attractiveness, her enticing physique. We stare at each other for a moment, neither betraying any emotion. What do we do now? Shake hands? Hug? We've known each other for weeks, and it seems longer, but… We shake hands and head upstairs to the dart board.
Our conversation consists of sentence fragments, continuing topics we started during e-mail exchanges long before. The dart board is occupied, so we play pool. We're so competitive during the game we barely speak. She wins. (I'm legitimately shocked; I play a lot of pool...) I order another round of beer, and the dart board frees up.
We pair up with another couple -- teachers -- and Lisa makes effortless conversation with them. The game ends, and again we're alone… and out of nowhere I feel it happen. I hadn't picked up on it during the games, but… somehow I'm blowing this. We aren't making eye contact. I run a test: I offer to get another round and brush her arm as I make for the bar. She recoils as if bitten. When I return, I offer to grab a table, to just sit and chill. She'd rather play more pool. I almost protest, think better of it, and we play.
"I think I've gotta get going," she announces when the game ends. "I'd like to hit a video store to pick something up for class tomorrow."
I really have nothing to say to this. I'm still in disbelief, tongue tied like a rookie.
We're outside her car. She turns to climb in without a good-bye -- her actions rushed.
"Hey," I interrupt her. She stops, turns to face me. We're standing six feet apart.
"Hey what?"
"Well, what do you think?" I already know what she thinks. I've played her part too many times -- but I ask anyway.
She stares blankly. No reply.
"I wish I wasn't this old," I say under my breath barely realizing it slips out.
"Old?" she asks.
"Nothing; I didn't mean what you think... So, do you wanna do this again? Are you just not diggin' me? Doesn't matter either way, but I'd like to know."
"Do what?"
"I dunno, this… go out?"
She pauses. "Why don't you e-mail me tomorrow?"
"Sure. But that's not going to change the question."
"Just e-mail me tomorrow."
I send the e-mail first thing in the morning. The question doesn't change. Toward the end of the day I get her response:
Thanks for the darts and pool last night... As for "not diggin' you," that's not it at all. I think I'm just not ready to start seeing people yet. My boyfriend and I broke up at the end of April after two years together. And we were living together when it ended. It's been tough, and I'm beginning to realize that I need to spend a little time on my own for a while.
Anyway, I definitely enjoyed e-mailing with you. You're an awesome writer... made me laugh a lot. Best of luck.
It's a bull shit send off, spurious, but even before I got her response, I had been taking stock. I've had a long career. I've dated prettier women, had deeper and more complicated relationships. But after this I feel hollow, unfamiliar, as if the world has moved in reverse. And it has. The Internet worked; I just didn't wind up winning.
I try and put this ethereal and ephemeral interaction in its proper context. By real-world terms, it is nothing, but the weeks preceding the meeting distort the magnitude of the event. And there's the sudden lack of honesty that stains her final message. I don't truly feel jilted; it's more… lost opportunity.
I guess if we've learned anything since 1998, we've learned the Internet can do that.
July 25, 2007 12:01 AM Anonymous said... Online dating research at Berkeley
Online dating has shed its stigma as matchmaker for the awkward (Goodwin 1990) to claim a new prominence in the social lives of millions of users. In August 2003 alone, 40 million unique users visited online dating sites in the United States alone, according to U.S. News & World Report -- that's about half the number of single adults in the U.S. Given their prevalence, it seems likely that online dating systems have begun to influence not only individual lives but also cultural notions of love and attraction with their overflowing catalogues of potential partners and their sometimes idiosyncratic choices of personal characteristics to highlight. But despite the incredible number of people using these services, we know little about how users perceive each other and interact through these mediated channels, or how such technologies might affect their selection of partners for dating, sex, and marriage.
Millennia of evolution have left humans with a set of perceptual and interpretive processes that allow us efficiently to identify desirable potential partners -- what happens when we go online and forfeit most of the sensory channels that drive this well-refined offline process? How can we improve the design of online dating systems to help users make better-informed decisions about whom they wish to contact and follow those decisions with effective communication? Moreover, might what we learn about searching and matching in a romantic context generalize to non-romantic situations, like matching potential employees with employers? To answer these questions, we have undertaken a research agenda with an integrative, multi-method approach grounded in social psychological theory and powered by data mining, statistical analysis, and interactive visualization.
July 25, 2007 12:03 AM Anonymous said... Dating Sites 1 to 25 we might like
1. datingdirect.com Primarily aimed at singles in the UK, Dating Direct has almost a million members and is the biggest personals site in the country. Their regular member parties, held not just in London, are fantastic fun and give you the opportunity to meet loads of nice people in person rather than just online. If you live in the UK I'd highly recommend checking this one out.
2. simplyclicked.com Simply Clicked.com is a completely free online dating service. There are no catches - simply choose a username and start meeting and chatting to other interesting singles in your area straight away. It really is a breath of fresh air to find a good dating site that isn’t just trying to part you from your money! For this reason I have made Simply Clicked.com the number two dating site in my list.
3. friendfinder.com Friend Finder is one of the best dating sites you will find. The registration procedure is clear and simple and once you have joined there are lots of interesting profiles to browse through, all with pictures. I quickly found many people I was interested in getting to know and I highly recommend you give it a try. It won't even cost you anything as it's free to join.
4. date.com Described as "the community with millions of singles", date.com does not disappoint. Once you find someone you are interested in, simply click the "show interest" link and they will be informed of your interest. If they are interested in you then get chatting and see what happens! I also liked the community area featuring dating tips and a whole host of other interesting stuff.
5. matchmaker.com Matchmaker has been around for a long time and is owned by Lycos so as you would expect it's a very well developed site. I found the registration process was quick and easy and I was soon searching through lots of picture personals in my area. A nice touch is being able to record a voice greeting.
6. singlescrowd.com Singles Crowd is one of the biggest and best places to visit online. Featuring personalized and compatibility matching, a relationship analyst and also their "Chatterbox" instant messaging, it really is a fun place to check out singles in your area. I've met some lovely people here and I highly recommend you give it a try too.
7. adultfriendfinder.com If you are looking for something more intimate than just a date then you should check out Adult Friend Finder. Here you will find thousands of like minded adults with sexy photos, seeking affairs, discrete relationships and sexual encounters. Best of all it's free to register so what are you waiting for?
8. matchamerica.com As the name suggests, Match America caters for single people in the United States. I found it takes a little while to register and "get going" on this site but it was well worth the effort invested once I started browsing all the other great profiles.
9. mingles.com I was very impressed by this site, it is packed full of features as you would expect of a site that makes it into my top ten. I was especially impressed by the advice section which gave me some great tips on posting a better profile and advice on what to wear for a date.
10. dreammatches.com Dream Matches is a 100% FREE exclusive dating club for a select group of very hot singles. Anyone can apply to join, but you have to be voted in by a panel of judges, that way only the best looking people can sign up. Once inside there is video chat, instant messaging, online games, new mail alerts, file sharing, the list goes on! And don't forget .... only the hottest people!
11. dreammates.com There are three communities to choose from at Dreammates, namely "Dating", "Romance" and "Intimate". So whether you are looking to just hang out, for a serious relationship or for an intimate encounter, there will be something to suit you here. As you would expect, the site is very fast to load and a breeze to navigate.
12. dreamdates.com A very slick and comprehensive site, the sign up procedure was painless and I found there was quite an even ratio of men to women. The "Click2Talk™" instant messenger made chatting to other people very easy to do. I thought that the "featured members" on the homepage was quite a nice touch too.
13. match.com I first came across Match.com some time ago and it just keeps on getting better. Lots of good quality singles with photos and I loved the fact that you can include up to ten pictures on your profile. Again, its free to register so what do you have to lose?
14. jdate.com A dating site for the Jewish singles community. This site is not just about dating, it also features advice and details of upcoming events. The dating search facility was very good and the site generally looks very well thought out.
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18. blacksingles.com Specifically catering for people of color, blacksingles.com is an on-line community, not just another dating site. I was quickly able to search through the personal ads and find some good matches, with and without pictures.
19. cyberdating.ca At this Canadian singles site there is no need to register or login, just search the personals for the person you want. An excellent site which is very easy to use. What a shame I don't live in Canada!
20. annabarmina.com This must be one of the best sites for meeting women from the former Soviet Union that I have found. A quick search returned almost 10,000 pictures of ladies looking for marriage to European and American men. Don't miss this site if you're looking for a Russian bride!
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24. lovebrowser.com Lovebrowser is graphically well designed but did seem to run a little slowly when I visited, especially when trying to perform a search. It was a very simple site to use although it doesn't tell you whether adverts include pictures or not before you click on them.
25. singleswithscruples.com Very quick and easy to use site. The graphics are excellent without being "over the top" and don't take ages to download. The search is quick and easy and members' profiles are displayed clearly and concisely in a well thought out format.
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nanc, if you had a daughter, say, 19. would you be concerned if a 48 year old man hit on her and chatted to her about having her torture animals for his sexual pleasure. an act that could land the young woman in jail for animal cruelty?
might you not try to warn other people. especially if you had direct evidence yourself and were not relying on heresay.
THAT NANC IS WHAT THE CONVERSATON ON THIS BLOG IS ALL ABOUT!!!!
It is NOT about YOU and your relationship with Howie, past, present or future.
all the long articles don't take away what a user and manipulator Howie is. leopards do NOT change their spots even if they meet a leopardess.
your words nanc/howie,--mission accomplished, you have succeeded in shutting up everyone else but yourself. your writings are boring self-centered dribble drabble. yawn!
pretending you don't know about the crushing is ridiculous. blaming Lindz is another. why not blame the abuser for once. saying you didn't post the long stuff. bs! it is your way of dominating the blog. you decided you were going to end it once and for all and that is obvious
you want us to believe you live some normal quaint quiet little life with babies on the way ? I dont think so!! what a scary thought for the rest of us
the blog wasn't a joke until you started posting. you tried to say it was only a place where some of us just wanted to trash but that was not true for everyone. some just wanted to make sense of what happened to them... maybe even linz included.....
again imagine being 19 and having some old man (50 is OLD to a 19 year old) tell you are beautiful when no one has ever told you that and u have had a rough childhood, and someone pays attention to you. this is abuse. so what if she got attached to him. poor thing!! it is his fault in my opinion as he started it. you dont mess with someone that age no matter what
back to this discussion which i agree is sick. STOP trying to interfere with the real issues here! STOP IT. It isn't funny at all. It is terribly obnoxious when there are some serious issues here to discuss. get over yourself
back to the conversation and poor linz (stop blaming the victim!!)
Anonymous said...
nanc, if you had a daughter, say, 19. would you be concerned if a 48 year old man hit on her and chatted to her about having her torture animals for his sexual pleasure. an act that could land the young woman in jail for animal cruelty?
might you not try to warn other people. especially if you had direct evidence yourself and were not relying on heresay.
THAT NANC IS WHAT THE CONVERSATON ON THIS BLOG IS ALL ABOUT!!!!
It is NOT about YOU and your relationship with Howie, past, present or future.
I am pretty sure I know who is posting the articles over and over and if they don't stop, I will report their IP address to google and to their ISP provider.
what are the rules for posting? oh right, I know, only hateful things one-side about a guy you hardly knew. And of course, ANYTHING horrible about me. and articles that are of your own choosing. yes, "C", PLEASE DO call google and let them know you are using your job to get IP addresses and then let us all know who they belong to. You can't control all the information, you can not blame someone else for all your anger.
is there a limit to the number of posts you can make? a limit to the number of articles that can be posted? a limit to the number of lies that can be told? a limit to the number of vulgar names that one person can be labeled? a limit to the number of accusations? a limit to the number of two-faced behaviors? a limit to the hypocricy? just what are the rules now that we're going to impose some? answer please?
All the article posts are from Howie's IP address, or most of them. The ones on dating are. Also the last few posts are from his address as well.
In the past day 95% of the posts were from South Lake Tahoe, there were a few from other parts of California and Nevada and only two or three from other states.
But the majority are coming from Howie's/Nanc's IP address.
By the way, there are TOS rules that do apply to blogs and some of them are being broken here. I'll continue to monitor the situation and I wiil report the IP addresses of those who aren't complying. Flooding a blog with an onslaught of unrelated articles is against the TOS rules.
Are these the only rules? or TOS (Terms of service?)
Blogger is a free service for communication, self-expression and freedom of speech. We believe Blogger increases the availability of information, encourages healthy debate, and makes possible new connections between people.
We respect our users' ownership of and responsibility for the content they choose to share. It is our belief that censoring this content is contrary to a service that bases itself on freedom of expression.
In order to uphold these values, we need to curb abuses that threaten our ability to provide this service and the freedom of expression it encourages. As a result, there are some boundaries on the type of content that can be hosted with Blogger. The boundaries we've defined are those that both comply with legal requirements and that serve to enhance the service as a whole.
Content Boundaries Illegal Purposes. Blogger may not be used for illegal purposes. Examples of this include using Blogger for fraudulent purposes or operating a phishing site (used to obtain account and password information).
Spam. We will aggressively seek to remove spam from our site. There are a variety of different ways in which spam manifests itself in blogs. Generally, when we talk about spam we mean content that is created for the primary purpose of manipulating search engine results, or generating revenue or traffic through deceptive means. The following are examples of the types of spam that are forbidden by the Blogger Content Policy ("Content Policy"), but this is not an exhaustive list.
comment spam: the manual or automated placement of comments on a post for the sole purpose of driving either traffic or Google PageRank to another site. Note that Blogger uses the rel="nofollow" attribute on links in comments to negate the effect of comment spam /> referrer spamming: send fake referrer traffic (links) to a site for the purpose of driving traffic to a Blog*Spot-hosted blog cloaking: the programmatic hiding of content on a site for the purposes of having that content indexed by search engines without it being viewable automated content creation: the scripted creation of blog content for the purpose of generating revenue or manipulating search results More information about the specific measures we are taking against spam can be found in Blogger Help.
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Users may not post other people's personally identifying or confidential information, including but not limited to credit card numbers, Social Security Numbers, and driver's and other license numbers. You may not post information such as other people's passwords, usernames, phone numbers, addresses and e-mail addresses unless already publicly accessible on the Web.
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Just because a given blog has received votes through this mechanism does not mean that any particular action will be taken. For example, blogs that are flagged because readers disagree with the political opinions expressed in a blog will not be acted upon.
Please see Blogger Help for more information about our "Flag as Objectionable" feature.
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It is our policy to respond to notices of alleged infringement that comply with the Digital Millennium Copyright Act ("DMCA"). If we remove a blog/post or disable access to a blog to comply with the DMCA, we will make a good-faith attempt to contact the owner or administrator of each affected site so that they may make a counter notification pursuant to section 512(g)(2) and (3) of the DMCA. It is our policy to document all notices of alleged infringement on which we act. A copy of the notice, with any personally identifying information removed, will be sent to a third party who will make it available to the public.
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Flooding a blog from one IP address with the same articles or unrelated articles can be considered a form of SPAM. SPAM on blogs is clearly against TOS rules.
It is easy to prove and assert SPAM when multiple messages are coming from one IP address as they are over and over.
We could assert that the offender is trying to increase google page rank for publicity purposes which makes sense in this case. Or we could assert that the offender is using SPAM to reduce free speech. Either of one these violate TOS rules and will be reported.
Also note this TOS rule which has already been broken on this blog: " Users may not post other people's personally identifying or confidential information, including but not limited to credit card numbers, Social Security Numbers, and driver's and other license numbers. You may not post information such as other people's passwords, usernames, phone numbers, addresses and e-mail addresses unless already publicly accessible on the Web."
Therefore, if you identify a person by an article or website when their NAME is not officially linked to that website OR TO THIS BLOG, this is a violation of TOS rules. Someone posted a website of someone without their permission and linked their name to it on this blog. Posting an article about someone not on this blog (like posting LindZs webpage) is also a violation of TOS. If they had used their full name, the offending IP address could have been prosecuted. Nanc has posted several names. She is only guessing which users said what. She has broken TOS rules and could be prosecuted for using and identifying names of people that are not readily available on the internet. These could be peoples user names and this clearly violates TOS. It doesn't matter if she "thinks" they said something or didn't say certain things, her assertions are not based on fact. She doesn't have access to IP addresses so she doesn't really know and she has violated the terms but not in a way that is easy to prosecute. But her IP address will be reported if I see more names or web addresses being posted.
Please note that these violations are considered federal offenses and are taken very seriously by courts these days. SPAM in particular is a hot topic on the legislative floor.
From what I have seen on this blog,and I have looked, nothing has been done to Howie Nowie that violates the TOS. Stating pure opinions about someone, personal stories orare not considered defamation or libel if it is your opinion and you deem it to be the truth based on your experiences. His name is readily available on the web in numerous locations so the title of this blog also does not break TOS rules nor does mentioning his name. You cannot mention his exact birthdate, user name, etc. For example someone mentioned his user name on match.com. This is a TOS violation but not one that would be considered seriously. If it was his ATM number, it would be.
The names rule is not easy to report and prosecute but the SPAMMING the blog is. I will report the IP address of individuals who SPAM the blog as an attempt to control free speech or google page rankings for publicity purposes.
Again, I remind all blog users that SPAM is clearly against the google terms of service.
hey nanc, a couple of us are asking you about how you'd feel as a parent under this situation ...
nanc, if you had a daughter, say, 19. would you be concerned if a 48 year old man hit on her and chatted to her about having her torture animals for his sexual pleasure. an act that could land the young woman in jail for animal cruelty?
might you not try to warn other people. especially if you had direct evidence yourself and were not relying on heresay.
If it was front page headlines in your local would you care more? A young woman landing herself in jail is a tragedy. what if you thought you had some power to prevent that from happening. would you feel differently if it wasn't your boyfriend who was the abuser?
Nanc has misdirected anger. She is psychologically unprepared to accept that her new love might be really have done a lot of these things. But he has. These aren't made up things. The blog would not exist if they werent true. Some exaggeration maybe but all. Nanc can only live in her tiny made up fantasy world for so long and it is breaking down.
She also is making the blog about her when it isnt. Note her recent comment about everyone trying to play with her mind. Not so, Nanc! The blog is not about you and never was about you.
Nanc is attacking a lot of people without knowing the real truth.
Nanc is unwilling to accept with the fact that maybe she made another bad choice when it came to a new man. She is afraid and that is why she is acting out on the blog. She certainly is not protecting her man on this blog. He looks more worse than ever now.
She certainly is not going to make new friends in town with this approach either.
A retirement party for South Lake Tahoe Post Office Senior Clerk Tom Millham will be on Monday, Aug. 6, at Horizon Casino Resort convention center from 5:30 to 8:30 p.m.
Join Tom as he calls it quits after 22 years with the United States Postal Service. Tom and wife, Cheryl, operate the Lake Tahoe Wildlife Care, which takes in and cares for sick, injured and abandoned wildlife.
Admission for the party is $20 and a cash bar is available. Appetizers and wine will be served. Advanced reservations are required. Reservations must be received by Wednesday, Aug. 1 at 2 p.m. Call (530) 577-2273 or e-mail cheryl@ltwc.org.
A roast will commence at 6:30 p.m. Emcees will be Howie Nave and Paul Middlebrook. After all the costs are met the money will be directed to Lake Tahoe Wildlife Care.
If you can't make it to the retirement party, you may want to send Tom your best wishes at an open house at the wildlife center, 1485 Cherry Hills, on Sunday, Aug. 5, from 10 a.m. to 4 p.m.
i never made this blog about me. I have posted MY EXPERIENCES in dating Howie, which are truthful and mine. Of course I'm angry at some of this stuff and angry that people DO make up differnt postings with a lot of false information so finding the truth is extremely illusive. How would YOU feel if you KNEW your daughter continued to call, email, text message, and whatever to a man Howie's age; pretending to be a fan or friend but behaving opposite later? and by the way, Lindsay already identified herself very early on as minniemouse postings and her friend(s) posted it was her who started this - that didn't come from me. One of her friends has called Howie and told him a bunch of things about her and her obsession about him anyway. so, stop STOP blaming me for everythign you don't like posted. Someone else, early on, went after her for going for "an older guy," not me.
I called Google this morning and was put in touch with someone who said, "Official IP Tracker" would have to work for google or have access to google's information , which is violation of their privacy and corporate rule and such so they will be looking into that because the whole thing (this site) is just wrong. If we're going to have rules, everyone should follow them, that seems fair to me.
Why am I on here - because you went way over the top. to make fun and belittle him for how well he performs sexually, how he kisses or not, how well he dates along with all the other stuff? way over the top
so ask yourselves, How would you like it if someone posted how well you could perform sexxually - maybe rated your performance or rated your kissing, or talked about how you failed them or whatver. you know....
i never made this blog about me. I have posted MY EXPERIENCES in dating Howie, which are truthful and mine. Of course I'm angry at some of this stuff and angry that people DO make up differnt postings with a lot of false information so finding the truth is extremely illusive. How would YOU feel if you KNEW your daughter continued to call, email, text message, and whatever to a man Howie's age; pretending to be a fan or friend but behaving opposite later? and by the way, Lindsay already identified herself very early on as minniemouse postings and her friend(s) posted it was her who started this - that didn't come from me. One of her friends has called Howie and told him a bunch of things about her and her obsession about him anyway. so, stop STOP blaming me for everythign you don't like posted. Someone else, early on, went after her for going for "an older guy," not me.
I called Google this morning and was put in touch with someone who said, "Official IP Tracker" would have to work for google or have access to google's information , which is violation of their privacy and corporate rule and such so they will be looking into that because the whole thing (this site) is just wrong. If we're going to have rules, everyone should follow them, that seems fair to me.
Why am I on here - because you went way over the top. to make fun and belittle him for how well he performs sexually, how he kisses or not, how well he dates along with all the other stuff? way over the top
so ask yourselves, How would you like it if someone posted how well you could perform sexxually - maybe rated your performance or rated your kissing, or talked about how you failed them or whatver. you know....
It seems clear the intent of a one or more persons is to get revenge at the expense of anyone else now, which isn't right. I can't speak for anyone else, but I do accept responsibility for saything some things I should not have If anyone doesn't have heart, it's the person who will allow our names to stay on this site just to get at Howard (that's his real name), enough already.
OMG my heart is BREAKING whoever posted the name of the person retireing, I know those people ! they are the most kind loving caring god-fearing wonderful people on the PLANET - how dare you put personal information about them on here, names, phone number email address? PLEASE take that down, what kind of person are you ? Those people have nothing to do with this, so what they hired the guy for some event?
The last person was right, DO YOU SEE innocent and kind people are being hurt for nothing.
IP Tracker person, tell us who that was and call your people at google, please take that down those people are the nicest people in the world. SHAME ON YOU
Google's rules say," " Users may not post other people's personally identifying or confidential information, including but not limited to credit card numbers, Social Security Numbers, and driver's and other license numbers. You may not post information such as other people's passwords, usernames, phone numbers, addresses and e-mail addresses unless already publicly accessible on the Web."
Therefore, if you identify a person by an article or website when their NAME is not officially linked to that website OR TO THIS BLOG, this is a violation of TOS rules."
SHAME ON YOU - your desire for revenge at the expense of completely unassociated persons is wrong. Unfortunately posting "anonymously" means you probably can't take the post down, now the only way to protect those innocent people is for minniemouse to take this down or if there is way for her to erase that entry or Google to step in.
771 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 400 of 771 Newer› Newest»dear 'minniemouse' who started this thing please tell me how I can remove comments i don't want up here, I said things I regret since I exaggerated a lot.
Another option if minniemouse chooses not to remove comments is to state which comments specifically were exaggerations.
why are you back tracking now the only gals who signed their names dont seem to be exaggerating so you are full of crap or u are chatting with Howie again and are feeling guilty. that is sick
more lies
or maybe you are Howie or his stupid freind, covering his tracks again trying to make it look like none of this is true
i know it is true, he asked me to sit on rats and other animals for sexual excitement and to smash them with my shoes. he lied to me, cheated, and manipulated and played with my feelings. all for himself. he is not a normal guy and he is not a nice one
or maybe u are just a liar on here to stir up the thing since it has been quiet
Given human nature and the real hurt Howie has caused I dare say it would not be unusal that there would be some exaggeration. I didn't get puppies and babies for example, but I too do verify the mice, rats, squishing, lies, attempts to manipulate my feelings for selfish desires.
I think it's probably honest women who don't want to exaggerate that want to clean this up a bit.
My proposal is, as soon as nanc (aka Howie) comes clean with her/his exaggerations, anyone else should too. Not that I'm the blog owner or that my opinion matters, but.......could be a plan B!!!
Lisa S
what do you think nanc/howie should do Lisa S?
i'm really sorry my asking to remove my comments made someone upset. I didnt want to stir anything up and I don't have anything to do with him now or ever, I just was angry when I posted
Basically, I think Howie should call his doctor, show him this blog, tell him it's true and ask for help. But, I don't even think he has enough insight for that. And I don't know if the folks at the Improv or other employers have any sort of mental health checks for their employees. If they cared, they would. I doubt Howie would get help on his own.
That's sad for everyone.
I do think it is fair to say there is some exaggeration here, but the essence of this blog is that of truthful stories.
I fess up to the OJ's publisher comment. That Howie, in an email to me, said he was going to write a book about this in language strikingly similar to the post by "Nanc" really pissed me off. The reason being, as I was documenting all my dreams and coincidences I made sure to ask permission about what Howie felt comfortable with me including. And really the whole project wasn't about him anyway. The coincidences with him and that book just motivated me to get the project done but I made sure to accommodate his feelings.
We stopped writing just after Howie sent me this -
"I like sharing stuff with you but don't expect to see it in someone's book one day. I am glad you won't be mentionign the movie but would also like to keep things between us here just that-between us. It makes it difficult to share things knowing someone else is going to read them so if that be the case I'll be clammign up now." .......... sharing things someone else is going to read...... hum does that include "cut and pastes?"
But now he says he is going to write a book about this? Sounds more to me like a threat to those he lead down some dark paths who are potentially embarrassed about having their personal correspondence published, the very thing Howie was concerned about.
Well, that was it for me, all bets are off, any promises of confidentiality evaporated. Plus, and this also really irked me, was that I was told this movie story really early in the correspondence and not at a stage that I was willing to keep stories secret. What, I have a best friend for 15 years that I talk to all the time and some near stranger all of a sudden tells me something unsolicited and shortly thereafter tells me it's a secret? Am I supposed to be bound by this? Sorry, any consideration previously given was being overgenerous on my part.
Trying to change Howie is a complete waste of time, but I certainly will feel free to use the examples of his behaviour in my upcoming ethics class. His behaviour would undoubtedly fail the "if everyone behaved this way would it make for a good society" test. Hell, I might even write a book one day and this might make up 1/2 a chapter.
And no Howie, you don't have any photos of my butt, or embarrassing emails to hold over me and it’s morally repugnant to hold that threat of exposure over others.
Lisa S
I could write a book about bad dating experiences and Howie Nave would top the list. I have never met such a creep and now that I know more, he has to be stopped. He has no conscious, he is a liar, he is manipulative and he did also fantasize about smashing rats, puppies, hamsters, kitties, mice and babies-anything that could fit under my big butt was fair game. The grosser and gorier the better-juices, blood, guts and all. No exaggeration, it is the truth.
I dunno why you think there is exaggeration. What I read here is what happened with me.
And the part about "secrets" is manipulative. It was "private" he said-lots of chitty chat about things being private.
No more private for me either-i am writing a story about this for a magazine. i am a writer. The story is about men on the internet who lie.
Well, I hope you post a note when the article's published. It would be interesting to read. Think bigger too. There's got to be movie rights in this for someone!
Lisa S
what a movie, about a sad aging comedian who lies about his age thinking it will matter, he hates women because of the way his mom is so he screws ladies over on the internet; and maybe just maybe the whole problem is that is gay and wont accept it
was howie on last comic standing? he said he won and i see no record of it another lie?
What did you exaggerate if you don't mind explaining? I wouldn't feel bad if i were you honey. I am sure everything you said was the truth, but when you are mad you say it stronger, right?
What an asshole this guy is. The things written here are true from my dates with him.
I think he is insane. I think he is a a crazy nuts sociopath kind of insane. Not the good kind of insane some talented people are. This guy does not have much talent but he likes to tell everyone up here in town that he does doesn't he. If he is so darn talented, why is he stuck here doing the same for so long. He wants all the chicks to think he is a movie star but it didnt fool me.
The West Coast Report January 2006 - A Night @ The South Lake Tahoe Improv
The West Coast Report is back for 2006, and this time it’s covering the Improv in South Lake Tahoe. The Improv in Harvey’s hotel is a nice, 250 or so seat room, with a HUGE stage. I was awarded two free tickets for a show at the Improv due to my excessive gambling, so I took the opportunity to cash in on a Tuesday night performance, without any knowledge of the comics performing that night. Usually a weeknight would cost $25, and rightfully so (sarcasm), because this place had the best comics Lake Tahoe had to offer that week.
First up was the host, Howie Nave. Apparently ole Howie must be sucking someone’s dick on a regular basis, because he has the dedicated host gig. This dude defines hack. He sounds like a gay Bobby Slayton, and looks like an old fat Dave Coulier from Full House. This guy was atrocious. The guy brought a guitar onstage, which is all I need to say.
I dated this man and was engaged to him many years ago. An old friend just called me and told me about this site. I can see that he is sicker now then he was back then. He was very self-centered then and unhealthy back when. I am happily married to a wonderful, giving man, and reading these things, I most obviously made the right decision. You think by this age he would have gotten some help by now. He was always the "golden" boy to mom and girls in his life, and he needed attention, attention, attention. How sad he is still like this at 50 years of age. There is something satisfying to me reading this all however. Revenge can be sweet, even many years later.
you were engaged to him? really ? "officially" cuz he told me he was never engaged except to the lady he married. how was he 'unhealthy?"
you were engaged to him? really ? "officially" cuz he told me he was never engaged except to the lady he married. how was he 'unhealthy?"
Was that an engagement around 1993?
Officially, yes, very. By unhealthy, I mean mental health.
And no, not in 1993 it was years earlier than that, in the 80s. Was there another engagement in 1993? I haven't talked to him in years, nor do I care to. I suppose he lied to you Cheryl, like he does to everyone. He has a problem with lying and always did. You can blame his mother, and she is a factor in that he was spoiled, but it is never all the mother's fault.
There was a mention of an upcomming marriage for Howie in the Dr. Demento archives from around 1993 if I remember correctly, so I was curious. But really, I have no idea.
He told me he was engaged two times before the marriage. I even know the name of one and have seen her. When I asked him why it didn't work out, he said both of them couldn't "take it" any more. I didn't know what that meant, and I didn't ask. I don't know if any of this is true since now I have found out so much of what he said to me was lies. He also told me he won Last Comic Standing, and I don't think that is true.
I have looked it up and I can't find it anywhere and you would think that would be a huge deal to boost someone's career.
By the way, I do think he is talented. He might be a horrible person to be involved with, but he does have great assets. How would he draw such incredible women to him otherwise? Too bad he doesn't see or care to change how messed up he is. To me, this is sad. I see him being exactly the same in 25 years at age 75, if he is still even alive.
he didn't win Last comic standing, he appeared in the first season and was selected to appear on the show and go to the next round.
Personally, I really don't care how many times he has been engaged or married in the last 25 years, I would suspect he would be hooked up a few times.
I spoke to him recently (email) due to the fires, and he's ok. Honestly, I lve in tahoe and we've all been through so much this past week, he actually (as hard as this is to say) was a huge HUGE help to the community. He stayed on the air that first day forever, like 15 or 18 hours or something. He was so amazing and helpul to everyone, that I felt bad for all the bad things I had said/wrote.
i agree with the last posting, he has talents and gifts that are great, but also has the other side.
I hope he gets he stuff together at his age.
here's the thing I know he will always be someone who uses everyone - even during the fire, sorry "cheryl" but he will probably use the fire to get publicity. He's been emailing me and writng me all this time and I never let on that I know about this site. He writes "xoxoxo" on every email even though I heard him on his radio show recenty talk about having a girlfriend and I felt sorry for her when I know he's just using her to get people to think he's "normal guy," but he's not.
He even belittles some of the women who write him, I guess some of them have said they know about this blog and he jokes with me how they still write him and talk about their kids and he has even copied some of what they put in their emails to him and sends it to me "see isn't this crazy, they still email me," ... some people write to him about aliens ? and their kids (he thinks that's hillarious since he hates kids) and some write to him and say "they won't write anymore," but they do. I guess he thinks its funny...
All of you still writing him, so am I.. maybe we should start our own club...
he is a sick guy, really sick and really selfish
he wrote me also recently and started talking about the weird fantasy stuff again; i knew it wouldn't last, him not talking about it all
his girlfriend is dumb; she is a cover i agree; how do i know? cause i was a cover too once. what is so dumb about her is how she refuses to see what he is really like and thinks she is the only one. and she thought we were trying to break them up. which is so dumb, who cares
he'll never change; who cares that he was a good samaritan for a day. it is just an act . everything is an act with him. and for publicity i agree. his whole life is around 'look at me ma'
you said he belittles women? the truth is he hates women. comes back to ma ma i know it. i am sure he is gay and hasn't admitted it. he isnt normal sexually i wont go into details but he is NOT normal in that dept
ill play along with his dumb emails too, he doesnt know i know about this site either....i hate him so i'll get a kick from it for now and information
any of you who have fooled around with him in the physical way know the real truth about him
I don't know if he's gay or not because he really has no attraction to men, but he also doesn't seem attracted to women. maybe he's just non-sexual.
you are writing him too right now? and he's writing to you anout the fantasy chats? that's funny. i was thiking about posting some of his emails here.
oh maybe we could both send him the same email and see what he does (since he admits to pasting email responses to people.).
yes, still writing. yes, maybe he is even cutting and pasting my mails to you? i have kids so maybe he is talkin about me. he hates kids? he told me he liked kids. liar! would u post some examples please? id appreciate it
maybe he is assexual. he sure is not normal. there is kinky but this is not kinky. this is damn strange! we fooled around with me wearing a tight pair of shiny pants and he wanted to do everything thru the pants. i think he uses the pants for different gals too. he told me he bought the pants for me but they didnt look new. and i dont have the pants now so what does that say. i was to use them for our 'special times' he said he had to build up to the naked part. we had some naked but i wont go into details as it is too weird. he has problems lets say
ever met a man like this? and no stupid "girlfriend" (cover chick), i was not mad he didnt take me to bed. we have gone to bed, u arent the only one sugar, he even talks about you in the emails.
also everything he does is said or done for show in tahoe, he is phony phony phony phony phony
it is funny we both still write and he thinks we dont know about the blog. he'll read this and be trying to guess who it is
i know he reads this thing gals. he thinks it is all of us that have something wrong and that he has done nothing. you should know that... he laughs at all of us that is why i play with him still
Oh brother, he told me he bought me these shiny tight pants too. I never thought at the time he could be lying. This is just gross and weird. I am glad to have this guy out of my life and every time I check back here, I can't believe the stuff I read and mostly I can't believe I was so stupid.
What a jerk! I don't know why anyone would hate his current "girlfriend." Feel sorry for her!! I do.
oh i had the shiny pants too ! blue pair and black, he said they were his sisters and she had left them there. I kind of thought at the time he was lying but to think he had a bunch of us pose in the same pants ! yuck. ''
what else isthe 'same'? he signs all his emails to me xoxox too and sometimes xoxxoxoxo a ton of them. he must know we'd take that as special , could he be that manipulative?
we fooled around too, so i know what people mean about all that but to me that is too private for us to be posting about because its a problem but not part of him lying or using people. probably explains "why" he's not had a lasting relationship.
My shiny pants were blue
He told me that he bought them for me for the first time we were together.
I thought it was a bit strange at the time but now to know that others wore the same pants and that they weren't really a present! THAT IS GROSS! He wanted me to leave them at his house for the times I was there.
He even told me some elaborate story how he drove to Reno to get them.
Yes it is private about the problems he has but no one has gone into detail really. You said it is the reason why he doesn't have a lasting relationship, but I think it is much more serious than that.
I don't feel sorry for him because of any of his problems. I used to but screw him for all the lies and YES, he is that manipulative!!!
I have a friend who is a psychologist and when I told her all this stuff and showed her this blog-she said this is one sick sick sick guy-definitely narcisstic personality disorder and then some!
I get the xxooxooxo's too on my emails. Still get them. It is sickening!!! Why do I still write him is the question? Part of is is to just have the hard copies at this point. He has no idea I know about this blog and he would never ever be able to guess who this is. That gives me a sense of power knowing how he played with my heart and emotions for so long without caring one darn bit!!!
In letters to me, he makes fun of the ladies who write him!! He thinks he has done nothing wrong! He thinks that his fetishes are a normal kinky thing and part of being a comedian! They are sick!!
the last person who posted said you still write him and so did someone else and he has no idea you know about this blog? that's weird, doesn't he know that like everyone knows? well a lot of people anyway.
I don't think it's good idea you still write without telling him because then its kinda like you're manipulating him and becoming the same. Let's not go there we should be better than that. But it probably feels good to out-smart him after all the lying. He has no idea I know either, I'm sure of it.
I test him by signing our emails with a little nickname we had for our chats.
I hope no one else had the same nickname ? I hate to ask but did any of you have a "name" , I always sign my emails with it. I really hope he didn't use the same names for all of us, that would suck.
What kind of name? yes, i have a pet name, another similar, sick
I don't think it is manipulative because I am not repeating what he says here. But you make a decent point, I dont ever want to stoop as low as he but this is a guy that lied to me , cheated me, played with my head and used me. For me to do a tiny bit of harmless manipulation is forgiveable in my Gods eyes
but i hate to tell you i have a pet name as well. this is too creepy, the pants, the xxoxoxox, the fantasies...yuck to all
does he think we are all stupid?
the sick thing is i think he does
what was your pet name ?? I hate to ask if it had anything like "queen" in the name, or tush, or initials like ccq?
Okay, call it a Crush-Fetish see the entry in wikipedia under, you guessed it "Crush-Fetish"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crush_fetish
has links to
http://www.hermenaut.com/a99.shtml
and a Darwin Award Winner
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/429655.stm
WARNING next link has graphic images
http://english.cri.cn/974/2006/03/05/271@58062.htm
Lisa S
Here's an interesting article on the subject from around 2000 when a law prohibiting the sale of crush-fetish videos went into effect "Crunch Time for Crush Freaks: New Laws Seek to Stamp Out Stomp Flicks"
It also mentions the glass table thing ""The most extreme thing I ever heard of was this guy in Utah somewhere," recalls publisher Jeff Vilencia. "He made a Plexiglass platform, and he would lie under it, and the prostitute or whatever would crush things for him. One thing he liked was to take a lizard and glue it down to the glass. Then he put the lizard's arms in the Christ position, and he would have her step on it while he masturbated under this glass platform."
Human sexuality is such a puzzle.
Here the link again in case the html one doesn't work http://www.kapelovitz.com/crunchtime.htm
we were talking about whether we had used the same names, before all that postings about crush stuff, which is old news talked about on this sie a long time ago, apparently we all got into the same fetish chat with him
but,back to what we were talking about.. did you use anything like CCQ, and that for you pet names with him?
howie wanted to take photos under the glass table and that is what got him off.... i would sit on it and he would stick things underneath-- mice, kities, puppies, hamsters...the excitedment was seeing the creature killed under my bum while he watched and took photos, not only did i sit and crush them but squiggle all over them with my privates....he said i was the only one he ever told this too and he made it up himself, when i told him this friggin weird, and maybe he should seek help, he told me it was normal, yet he never had a normal sex reaction if you know what i mean. he just would talk about all that garbage and not care what i needed or wanted. it was weird and i have met a lot of men
he's only an ass man because of the crushing it can do, not the normal stuff men like it for
so they call that the most extreme?
he made mw wear black tight pants , if they were the same pants, i will shoot the bastard, but i'll never know
how do all of you still write to him when he is such a monster. no wonder he thinks it is funny,
and hey why do u care so much if he used the same name or not, the guy is a pig whether he did or didnt man oh man, what a pig is right; he even looks like a pig. how he gets all these ladies is beyond me; what is so great about him? he is tubby and impotent from what i can see and a loser user to boot! stop writing him fools!
gee maybe this will happen to the sucker, someone should call peta since the movies are illegal and i be he is making them
Love Crushed Sex
1999 Darwin Award Nominee
Confirmed True by Darwin
(June 1999, Florida) Okeechobee County investigators believe the death of Bryan, 28, was related to his wife's habit of stomping rabbits and mice for sexual pleasure. Stephanie, 29, was sentenced to two years of probation and community service for the death of her husband Bryan, who was found in a pit with a board over his body, crushed beneath the rear wheel of his sports utility vehicle.
Stephanie did not deny that she drove over her husband, but in her own defence she released tapes to the police showing her stomping small mammals to death. She was identified by a cryptic tattoo on her lower leg.
Such "crush" videos are sold to people who derive sexual pleasure from the sight of death, especially at the hands of a woman. "It was abhorrent and cruel," said Assistant State Attorney Bernard Romero. "My first instinct was to seek the maximum penalty."
But Stephanie contended that she was an unwilling participant in the videos, and had been beaten many times by her husband prior to his bizarre death. Stephanie was charged in July with two counts of felony animal cruelty, which were later reduced to misdemeanors.
As for her husband, his death under the wheels of his car was presumably a loving sex act between consenting adults. But a man who would lie in a special pit while a woman he groomed for "crush" videos drove over him, shouldn't be surprised when he winds up holding a Darwin Award.
He needs to be crushed himself!
I was also told the blue pants were a "gift" what a jerk!!!!!!!! And he was impotent with me as well
I keep waiting for big Hilda (or was it Stephanie? Jane? Cheryl?) to come along and tell us off. whats her name-Hee hee hee. She is big Hilda to me....now she is a crusher! Maybe it is really the high heel of mom coming down?
crushing queen
xoxoxoxoxox
are you catholic crushing queen? CCQ?
try "spandex loving crushed rodent queen"
You know, he might not be loyal to women, but he certainly is loyal and consistant to his crushing-fetish. How on earth does someone end up this way?
we talked about it forever, but never did anything, i think it's weird if anyone did it, actually - but I think I'm weird for writing non stop for hours about it. and peta would be just as intersted in the person who did it , if they did it.
and I was a big mama crushing queen, sometimes, Cq for short
try Christian Crushing Queen, I know... it's crazy, I am a christian and shouldn't have talked all that nonesense but i did know it was just emailing.
i had blue pants too
I had about six different crushing nick names with initials and I thought I invented all of them. I guess not, or he carried on with it after. I don't care much anymore. He is a complete loser, I mean come on! What a total loser! So what if he is some fun. He is pretty scary at the same time. I feel sorry for Big Hilda myself. That name cracks me up!!!
And I had the blue pants too!! He told me that he bought them for me. Every time I check back into this blog, I find something creepier about him.
How does someone end up this way you ask?
Try a mother who is overbearing and emasculates her little boy. Or possibly one who dotes on him all the time to the point of nausea.
He told me about the glass table too and the whole excitement was after he would then turn it around and he was the one really being crushed by me and that was the excitement. Then.. !! Sex would finally happen! Whoa!
A shrink would have a hay day with Howie Nave and then probably lock him up. He can laugh at all of this and all of you who write him as much as we wants, but trust me this is one miserable guy who will never have a a truly good relationship last. It is truly pathetic.
at least it sounds like you had good sex with him, that's normal anyway.
no sex, that is the point
who has had sex?
The point of the whole fetish definition is that sexual arousal comes from the fetish itself, in Howie's case, the crushing act. So, it's not surprising that he would have little sexual response to mainstream hetrosexual or even mainstream homosexual opportunities.
The person who posted this says she had sex with him..
"He told me about the glass table too and the whole excitement was after he would then turn it around and he was the one really being crushed by me and that was the excitement. Then.. !! Sex would finally happen! Whoa!.
we got very carried away with our chatting, and looking back at those emails, it was me who wrote all about what "I" would do for him, I don't know how or why I got so into it, really, but I guess I liked the chatting.
I haven't talked to him in awhile though, anyone 'chatting' with him currently or heard from him recently?
don't forget xoxoxox
sex? no never happened despite tries
someone said his talk on crushing being consistent. that is because this is a obsession for him. the fixation on huge behinds is related to it completely
did anyone else sit on his face? that is his other big fixation...he asked me to sit on his face. i felt funny and it did nothing for me gals! but i am ashamed to say i did it
it is all about him being crushed i see now
yes gals, this is all very personal for y'all but i dont feel bad ladies because i was manipulated and told i was the only one so to find out there are loads of you? loads of you wearing blue tight pants and with nicknames too. the part about kids bugs the crap out of me because he told me he loved kids so i talked about mine. all confidentiality goes out the window cuz of this lying gals....
i wrote that and sex did NOT happen. i said it was supposed to happen but it did't
just wanted to be clear
i was told that the table would lead up to great sex but it never occured
we never had sex never
Haven't others heard him say how much he hates kids? Why do you think he doesn't have any? It's a good thing anyway.
We got into kinky stuff, no crushing or anything gross like that, I really hope nobody ever did any of that , you'd be just as wrong as him if you did,
but I sat on his face, it was kind of fun at first, sexy a little but didn't lead to anything much. We met up a lot during the couple of years we were emailing.
Blue pants, me too. I guess I don't mind that too much. I once had a guy asked me to dress up as French maid, and he had the outfit too, and another guy liked it when I cleaned the house -- seems like guys have certain things they like? Weird. Why do we do what they ask? THAT'S the REAL question. I keep asking myself, why did I do stuff, wear the pants, let him take photos, sit on his face, I think I figured it would lead to fun sexy times and maybe if it did, I wouldn't think it was so odd. I don't think the french maid or cleaning lady guys are too off the wall.
I need to learn not to do everything they ask for, maybe that's the real lesson. If some guy wants to talk weird online I think I'll skip it next time, that's a warning sign for sure.
to who asked "how recent..." ?
I wore the blue pants last year and the year before. I've emailed him recently. He said he missed chatting. He probably does from the sound of it if we've all stopped emailing him, wonder who he is talking to? some poor innocent soul who is probably right now typing away about things she thinks are gross and weird but she won't say thinking "He likes me." I'm mad that he thinks I'm such a fool.
i have dressed up plenty of time for men in french maid costumes, sexy lingerie, and more. I have pretended to be a hooker and have done lots of fantasy play. i am sorry but this is different. that was harmless and didnt hurt others or animals. i have never had a guy ask me to sit and crush animals and smash them with my butt before. it was a bad bad bad bad BAD BAD sign and i should have known better!
If a guy through internet is talking about weird stuff like this before you even meet them it is another bad sign. I knew better and I was stupid.
to the last person you sound like you feel sorry for him, i wouldn't, he has no shortage of girls i am sure since he is such a pathologic liar and he has his new girlfriend; he should be chatting with her and having her sit on his face..i hope she has the blue pants as well!
still no one has said they had sex with him and i am another one who didn't; bad bad bad sign when a guy can't or wont do anything after being with them a bunch of times, dome on ladies we know men! what guy doesn't touch you naked?. something is wrong there girls. red flag!! i wasnt mad, as the girlfriend suggested; it was WEIRD! WEIRD WEIRD WEIRD!
i dont feel sorry for him one bit. i hate him as a matter of fact. it is the only reason i read this blog anymore, i know it isn't good to hate but i do, he is an asshole plain and simple, if you give him a lot more credit that that , he is just manipulating again to make you think he is more than he is, he is an empty shell, only a complete dick would treat people like this sorry and than laugh at it after
didn't he write someone that he laughed at people who write him?
ANOTHER CRUSHING QUEEN, he is lucky he is not near me now; i'd do a lot more to him than sit on his head!
oh sorry to the last person, i misread what u said; you said you are mad he thinks you are a fool; i thought you were feeling sorry for him, i didn't mean to make that remark
i am mad too . furious! about the blue pants, the lying, the nicknames and MORE
Okay, I didn't post the comment about Howie laughing at other people but with some reluctance I will post the message I received from Howie when I wrote to him about this blog and his problem at the end of May.
I'm actually someone who does feel sorry for Howie, because I see that he is mentally ill and not at all intouch with reality. Never the less, it doesn't help anyone, to protect him from actions he may have little control over.
Here is his response to me when I recommened he see a doctor -
"Lisa, if you love me bunches why are you calling me a psychopath? I've engaged in online writing with women who were mutually interested. Like I said before they sent me pictures, in fact I think you even sent me a couple. I've sought legal advice about the blog and there is no concern because it was all mutual consenting and i have emails IMs, and pictures to prove it. What some call sick others call creative. And about the lying... what did i lie about? That i was interested in communicating with women, i was and they were. Were they exclusive? No. Is that news to women that men lie? In fact, how many women were lying to me and communicating with many men. I know one was married, several were dating other people and like I said I have all the proof to show they voluntarily reciprocated in this type of talk, are we "all" sick then? Hey, look, I'm a comic, I'm dark by nature and I know 100s of other comics that have kinky fetishes and what not. I'm not reading the blog and don't care, as I said before my girlfriend and I are actually working on a book about these types of things and it does not bother me. Oh and thanks for posting my song, what about my other song, "Working on Love" eh? Those lyrics say in part, "I don't know why love is such a pain in he ass," Like gas I wish it would pass...." so there are two sides to every coin, they need to move on."
The similarity between this letter and the "Nanc" comments leads me to believe Howie was the one posting as "Nanc."
There are many known psychological defenses humans have to protect us from the truth we would rather not know about ourselves, projection, denial, transference etc. And to someone so hardened and so empty, the truth really cannot penetrate.
Personally, I don't think psychologically Howie can see what the impact of his lies has had on those who have encountered him so, in a way it is hard for me to blame him. Never the less, I think this blog is extreamly valuable. For those hurt to vent, and realize they weren't the crazy ones and for others to be warned about what they may encounter.
Unlike Cheryl, I do not hope that Howie is okay. If he is okay, he will never have a chance at recovery. I'm always the optimist, and so I will post this completly irrational email from Howie, because I actually do care about him. Howie, you are not okay, this is not okay, you need to see a doctor before you hurt more people even if you don't see yet that this is happening.
YOU Howie, are the one who is unbelievable. Get some help.
to clarify, I never called Howie a psychopath. I don't think he is one nor do I think he is a sociopath. He seems to have a severe narcissistic personality disorder and an obsessive crush-fetish.
I know Howie doesn't have a girlfriend and i don't know people think he does because he continues to email me and he doesn't say a word about her, so if he did care about her wouldn't he say so and besides HE IS EMAILING and Flirting with me and so I think it's all crap. He sends me lots of emails so where is "she' anyway?
And all that stuff that lisa s. posted about what he said to her, sounds like him so I believe that, but I just don't know what all the emailing is about and why he knows about this blog and yet still does it ?
to the last person, the answer to your question is exactly what
lisa s said, he really is mentally ill so of course he is sill writing you. and just because he doesn't mention a girlfriend to you hardly means he doesn't have one! don't you think?? come on!
if you email with him and do the fantasy stuff and continue it, then you are just enabling him in a way, the chatting, the fetish, it is almost like a drug to him i really think.
i am sorry that he is going through this but i agree with lisa s, he is never going to get help until he realizes that he needs it. the letter to her shows that he doesn't think he has done a thing. he is sick! that letter is disturbing!
it shows that he absolutely is void of insight, is in serious denial, has no empathy for anyone. he takes no responsibility for anything he has done to anyone, and he says he thinks his behavior and fetishes are all ok & normal... he said it all in black and white, right there for you all to see.
That letter is from a very sick and mentally ill person!
lisa s is right, the main purpose of this blog is for those who have been hurt by this to vent about it and also maybe to prevent someone new from going through what everyone here went through with him. If you keep talking with him, and then are hurt it is your own fault. Sorry!
the blog is NOT going to change him ... he doesn't want to change nor does he think he has to. READ THE LETTER he wrote Lisa S!!. he has obviously had really nice women involved with him and that made zero impact, that is not the answer. so those of you who might email or talk with him still hoping for that, you will only be let down. he really can't even be a friend, because everything is about him. so you are better off moving on and finding people in your life who are capable of caring about you too. i know it can be hard to do, he can fill a certain void i suppose if you are lonely, but it isn't real, he doesn't care how you really are, he isn't capable of that
i posted that we email, but I don't do any fantasy chat with him, i never have.. not the stuff you talk about. We are kind of like friends, but flirt a little in emails.
is he a real friend to you? what do you get out of it? no one is telling you what to do, i wrote that and it was meant more lots of people not just you
my point if he is treating you badly (and i am nor saying he is) or anyone badly why continue?
it was meant for everyone but if you want to know why he is emailing and flirting, the letter answers it for you. you obviously are interested in him or you wouldn't keep talking about why does he have a girlfriend. if he is just a friend, who cares?
I was Jewish crushing queen among 10 other names. I thought i was the one who started the naming. I started leaving stuff at the end of my emails 2 1/2 years ago or so and he said he never met anyone who did this. What a lie! Another major lie! I feel sick again knowing all this. The blue pants were supposedly a gift for me as well. Another lie! Knowing this makes me sick. Here is my message to Howie. I believe he does read this blog.
Howie, you totally betrayed me in so many ways. You may find it all funny, but it isn't. This blog exists solely because of YOU. It is YOUR FAULT! How you lie and treat people like this is beyond me. You are ill, that is clear. That letter you wrote to Lisa S is a sign of serious sickness and denial. I told you all I had gone through before I met you and you simply did not care. You only cared about yourself. You are beyond selfish! You are mean!
And for that reason, I can't ever forgive you. I am close to saying I hate your guts but I just try to not have hate and I don't hate you. I still care about you as a matter of fact. But out of all the men I have EVER been involved with and there are quite a few on the list, you are clearly the meanest and the most messed up. I feel sorry for you more than anything else.
I remember how many times you told me I would end up hating you one day and I told you it would never happen no matter what, and look at this. You told me the compliments would stop someday and the only reason they did is because of you, the way you treat people who care about you. You are disturbed! There is something wrong with you. Admit it already and get some help!
I miss you in a way, but not the way you hurt me and treated me. You destroyed a good relationship. I WAS LOYAL to you and I cared about you and loved you. Your recent apology letter in the mail was hardly enough. Some emails and two weekend dates? MEAN! MEAN! MEAN! You BROKE MY HEART!!
Get some help!! Or when you are 60, this blog will still be here! How sad would that be for you. I know you are unhappy inside. Do something about it! And stop hurting other people and also alienating people who care about you.
I NEVER would have written one word on this blog if you hadn't accused me of writing things when I didn't and lied about me.
the other l-
aka- JCQ- NEVER!!
You got an apology letter from Howie in the mail? that is very surprising. He never said he was sorry to anyone I thought. I haven't heard from him in awhile and was upset about it until I found this blog and realized what might be going on. But an apology makes me wonder.
Yes I did, handwritten, four or five sentences. I was glad to get it and to get my belongings back after two years of asking him for them. I don't know if it is really "something." He probably hoped it would mean I wouldn't write anything on here. I have a lot of things that could be said in great detail that I haven't said a word about. I still won't. But is he really sorry? Did he ever really appreciate me and the time I put into him? I don't think so actually.
I am sorry I just wrote what I did on here. I have been not posting and not wanting to post. But when I saw the part about the blue tight pants and all the acronyms, I became furious again. I have moved on and in a way I am sorry the blog even exists because I can't resist checking back here, but then I get upset when I do.
What it comes down too is feeling so betrayed because you were flat out lied to so greatly and then he takes no real responsibility for it. For me to truly forgive him, I'd love to see him getting some help for himself in an honest way.
I actually do care about him even though I can't ever trust him again or have anything to do with him. I used to write him still trying but he really doesn't want real friends. He wants superficial chatting because then he doesn't have to deal.
But I am sorry I just went off again. I am just emotional and reading about the pants and those acronyms!!!! I feel so fucking used!! It is just a very creepy and icky feeling when you honestly cared about a person to find later on how many lies there were....
Yarnb -- how did you remove the post? I'd like to remove one of mine...
I would guess that you would have needed to sign in with a username and password when you originally posted in order to remove a post. I don't think people who post anonymously have that same ability. It's just a guess.
that's ok, i went to the link from YarnB - and saw that it's one of the Lisa's websites I guess with her own loggin and thats how you can post and remove.
lisa, YarnB you have a lot of nice knitting and stuff and its nice to put a name with a face and all. Yu are a good knitter ! If you guys want to see her knitting it's really good go to this link
http://yarnbotanika.blogspot.com/
katherine, why did you have to put my website there, that is not right of you; i removed it on purpose!! I accidently posted with my google name. I removed it in two seconds,
Now my name and website are stuck on here permanently. that was really wrong of you and I am pissed off. Can you erase your post? Otherwise to be honest with you I feel I have to now delete my entire personal blog thanks to you.
i don't want people from this damn blog going to my own personal site
what a crappy crappy thing you just did, maybe you didn't mean anything and I appreciate the compliments but that was REALLY wrong of you!!
You must be just sitting on this blog as the name YarnB was up for literally ONE SECOND! Katherine, please edit your post and take out my personal website! Now all my years of work on my own blog have to be erased because of your considerate posting. Don't you think if I wanted the upset up, I wouldn't have deleted the post? Thanks a lot!!
Lisa, YarnB is still on here, it wasn't on for two seconds, it's still there. All anyone has to do is click on the name, "YarnB" and they can go to your various sites and see all your yarn or kntting work. Why would you have to take that down?
Its still there?? I don't understand. I don't see it on internet explorer or on firefox. what browser are you using? I guess I don't have to take it down. I probably over reacted as usual but I want to stay away from this blog. I just am tired of the whole thing and it isn't important to my life right now. So I don't like the idea of people coming from here to there.... I preferred being anonymous even if I did sign my name.
L-
katherine, i am sorry i was angry at you if it is still there, but i don't see it anymore. can you erase your post (just the website address) or not?
someone should have started a private chat room for all of this instead of a public blog. i just don't want my website address on here!!
Hi folks,
It's fairly obvious that people who torture animals for their own sexual gratification are emotionally disturbed. These sociopaths have as much empathy for the women they use in their videos as they do for the animals being tortured -- both are just tools to satisfy their crush fetish.
Unfortunately, neither California or Nevada have passed laws prohibiting crush videos, but there is a Federal law that makes creation or possession of these videos a felony, if there is intent to profit from them.
If this is the case with Mr. Nave, notify your District Attorney's office. The law in question is "18 USC 48".
In case anyone didn't notice, John's name has a link to a site with some information on this crush fetish. It's
http://www.dopplerfx.com/dfx_cfm/crush/crush_main.cfm
i wonder how this guy found this site? i read his page and it is creepy gals and it means that howie is in the extreme group. i asked him about bugs when he first told me this and he said they were not big enough so that tells you, the creature had to be mouse size or bigger and the guts of it is what he liked leaking out around the butt or the high heel pump shoe (shiny shoes by the way), not a stiletto because the heel was not big enough to stomp the mouse(his words ladies) he also did not think this is wrong morally so it shows something else big time. true we dont know if these things were done or only talked and written about nonstop but he wanted someone badly who wuld do them. he told me he HAD to find someone who liked it like he did. he was mad i didnt like but its gross! i bet he has at one time found someone cuz he sounded so determined;
from that page:
What's the big deal? So, they step on a few bugs! So what?
And when the "thrill" of tormenting those creatures fades, the hardcore crush fetishist moves on to more evolved animals that suffer more intensely and visibly: baby mice ("pinkies"), rats, guinea pigs, kittens, and dogs.
Empathizing with crustaceans and insects may be difficult, but few people are unable to see the evil in torturing and killing mice, cats and dogs. Those who cannot see the wrong in these acts are seriously out of touch with their conscience.
Are these people a danger to those around them?
Quite possibly. There is a well-documented link between violence against animals and violence against human beings. Animal cruelty is in the history of a majority of serial killers, rapists, and spouse/child abusers.
Consider that one who abuses animals lacks empathy. Is the transition from torturing a helpless cat to torturing a helpless baby all that great?
I truly can’t believe people are posting such unbelievable things on this site. This is Howie’s girlfriend. I know, I said I wasn’t going to ever post here again but this has gotten out of hand.
A recent posting by a Lisa who was upset about a link to her website tells it all. Why is it ok for people to post “anonymously” and write anything you want to without regard to the impact on anyone yet, you Howie’s name and entire life is posted? Lisa doesn’t want the link to all her pages and I can understand that – it’s unnerving. Lisa, like most people doesn’t like her privacy being exposed; yet people are writing whatever they want to on here? Some postings make fun of me, call me names, and even belittle whether or not I exist. Well I do and frankly, I’m pretty upset at this point.
If you wanted to hurt and impact Howie’s life, you have. Mission accomplished. You’ve hurt us both and his family and you’d probably say you don’t care and I suppose you don’t. But, why should any of you receive anonymity while Howie does not receive the same, especially with the extremes of what is posted?
Here’s the “real story” if any of you care to know the truth, here it is. And if you don’t care, that’s fine, my family cares. Howie and I live together. We have a normal life of working, shopping, time off and plain old life. We have a regular real relationship, with regular normal activities.
When Howie and I first started dating more than a year ago, of course I knew he was on Match.com and probably other sites. I also knew he dated several people. But, I think that’s what dating is about, dating several until you choose to be exclusive. Eventually, we did. At that point several women in town literally did start harassing me and him to a frightening extent. I can not begin to tell you the extremes some women have gone to I have been very scared of a couple of what a couple of people have done to us, it’s not a joke and not something I take lightly; endless phone calls, following me, harassing, threatening to the point of telling me they hope our house burns down. We have restraining orders for a reason and it is quite literally scary.
I am not posting here to defend or explain anything Howie may or may not have emailed or said to anyone. But, I’m also not going to let all the accusations on here stand without someone at least posting the truth about our lives, the way Howie is with me, and need it be said that I haven’t done anything like some of you said Howie wants. We do not do weird things to anyone or anything. We’re busy; he works, I work, we watch movies and talk and bike and play with our dog and do all the other normal things people do.
I wonder how some of you would like to have the same treatment you are giving both Howie and myself. I would bet some of you have hurt men in your lives, I know I have. But, I’m sure none of you would want a site like this one about yourselves in which men are free to evaluate your sexual prowess or the fantasies you had and or whether or not you were emotionally and psychologically balanced and where you worked and lived. I know I wouldn’t like it and I’m sure my ex’s would have plenty to say about their perspective of our relationship.
Point is, the things some of your postings are NOT harmless to our lives or our families. I presume you don’t care about that though and I’m not posting this to convince you of anything, I’m posting so there will at least be some truth of who Howie is and who he is to me which is good, decent, loving and caring. He’s not perfect (is any guy?) but he by far a long shot away from being a psychopath. Most importantly he doesn’t deserve all this.
And maybe I didn’t say everything just perfect here, but you don’t know me, you don’t live with us, some of you never even met Howie yet you write as the authority figure on analyzing him from his songs to his sexual orientation?
To go further and post accusations of possible child abuse, especially under the guise of anonymity, has got to be slanderous as much as it is bizarre.
If any of you slander me or publicly accuse me of engaging in actions with Howie for which you have ZERO information or evidence to support then be prepared for a public response and any legal action I can puruse.
~Nancy
nancy, there is something wrong with you in a serious way. that is why women must have done the things you say on here. i think you are in a thick thick and sick denial and i dont believe you live a normal life with howie. if you really think that anyone on earth believes that, you ought to commit yourself along with him to the closest mental hospital
accused of child abuse? what are you talking about. no one did that on here that i saw
i dont know you but i do know howie and you do not have a normal relationship with him. the fact that you think you does makes me realize how ill you are
it is frightening that you choose to blow all this off, just frightening that you are so foolish and dense
nancy, did you ever for a second thing that maybe women said things to you for REAL reasons, for good reasons? you are joking and lying to yourself if you think it is not true. seriously joking yourself
it is too bad you were harrassed but you can't be too bright to ignore what hundreds of women on here are saying and what people in tahoe are saying to you. do you seriously think it is all because they want Howie. THINK ABOUT IT NANCY, use your brain. they don't, we don't, want him!! the blog is to warn people just like you, but you are the ultimate fool!
what makes you think that you are so right and we are all so wrong, we are all insane but you aren't? is that really what you think? do you honestly think that you know him better than others who who have known him for years? how can you think that? it is just stupid!!
the fact that u come on and defend him says everything about you
thank goodness people tried to warn you is what i say
about blogs being anonymous of course they are anon and what you dont seem to get is that howie has done some seriously and wrong things that have a lot more to do than dating and breaking up with people
you act you have have some normal love story but that is a lie
he is still emailing women and chatting with them, what is wrong with you? are you so blind to put all your faith in one person who has hurt so many people, and you know he talked to you about all this fetish stuff nancy, you know he did, it is not a lie,
did you ever hear about codependant women or women who stay with crazy men-that is what u sound like and i hope your family can talk some sense into you
now you live with howie and a month ago u saw each other every weekend, he has the perfect cover for his sickness. someday nancy you will look back on all of this like many of us did and you will say to yourself why the hell was i so stupid! why did not listen to all the people who were trying to warn me
you will, and you will remember this blog post then, because if you think you will be living happily ever after in a normal relationship with him, you are truly screwed up and without much self esteem as well
NANCY, Blogs ARE ANONYMOUS. That is their whole nature. That is the whole point of the internet. It is silly to think that people will post their names. And even if they did, so what? It wouldn't change anything and you keep making a big deal of that.
What you are not recognizing at all is that maybe Howie caused this himself because of the way he treated numerous women.
Do you think that is a remote possibility?????
Lots of men have been jerks to women but don't have a blog put together about them to warn women. None of my ex's have a blog about them...do yours?
And no I wouldn't want a blog about me but I have never done things like Howie has done to men in my life. Ever! And no I don't think most women have. Not to this degree, not this many lies. How can you defend all this so casually? I agree you sound in denial completely.
This is all Howie's fault, not the women he has mistreated.
You act like you want all of us to feel sorry for you and even more for Howie but why should we? He seemes to have no regard for anyone but himself. I was HAPPY to find this blog to realize that it just wasn't me that was treated like absolute crap. Don't you have any respect for a single woman on here who has said anything? There are obviously some smart and nice women who have posted on here. The question should be why don't you have one ounce of respect for any of the woman who have posted here Nancy.
You keep acting like it was normal dating behavior on his part and it simply wasn't!
I was going to sign my name but I won't. It is a blog. I am allowed to be anonymous if I want.
Nanc, the line "Consider that one who abuses animals lacks empathy. Is the transition from torturing a helpless cat to torturing a helpless baby all that great?" was a quote from John Doppler Schiff's site that had information on the crush fetish phenomena in general, it wasn't an accusation leveled against Howie.
Unless you know something we don't, I wouldn't worry about it.
I'm sorry you are being harrassed. For anyone who reads this blog and is upset please do not harrass this happy couple.
Part of this conversation here is to help those of us who had been lied to and manipulated during our relationship with Howie so we can figure out just what the hell it was we were involved in and what the actual truth of what went on really was. Some of us obviously need that.
Being talked about in a negative way is a natural consequence that follows from being a pathalogical lier.
Cause = Effect End of story.
I might add that the corollory to "all men lie" is that "all women talk about men who lie incessantly"
again Cause = Effect
http://www.webster.com/dictionary/corollary
Nanc, torturing animals is a CRIME. Your "normal" boyfriend tried to lure me into criminal activities. I have proof I'd be happy to show in court should the need arise.
as many of you have said, You don't know me, you don't know anytbing about Howie or how he is with me or our life together - that you are right about. To call me sick or nuts or whatever - someone you don't even know! It's truly amazing
Again, "anonymous" convenience to hide behind. Interesting you don't reveal your name
We're heading out for a lovely evening, hope you do the same.
nanc, your posts speak for themselves
no one has to know you or your life to figure that out very quickly
your posts show a lack of responsibility for Howie's actions, they show a lack of conscious, restricted mental insight, lack of kindness or empathy,
again "anonymous" (for now), how convenient. Again, since you don't live with us you don't know our lives you are no authority on Howie or myself. It shows a lack of mature thinking to presume you can claim to know someone you don't. And, you don't.
Did you know, Howie and I had a romantic evening on the lake, boating, Bbq, champagne and strawberries. I love that none of you know what Howie can do with champagne and strawberries or you just haven't said the good stuff on here. No, you don't know that, you don't know how we just live normal lives, doing normal stuff. You actually posted that I "don't" or couldn't possibly live a normal life ? Don't you at least know that sounds ridiculous trying to state as a fact what MY life is? It would be just as ridiculous for me to state as fact something about your life.
---
your posts speak for themselves, you've shown a lack of responsibility because any email or communication for which you clicked "send" and sent to Howie (or anyone else for that matter), was of your own free will and you know that. some women (some of you included) would send Howie very risque' emails! some sent pictures of themselves all dressed up in tight pants, high heels and so on, yet you take no responsibility for that and seem to blame Howie for enjoying that or whatever else you said and did.
and, like I wrote yesterday, I am not on here to make a judgement abotu the types of emails and things you did or sent to howie; like you, I'm talking about MY experiences with Howie for which you don't know anything about.
I was with Howie time and time again when Lindz would send Howie IM (Instant messages) saying "please Howie come have sex with me RIGHT NOW), she sent them over and over again of her own free will. I saw her write, "come take advantage of me right now." She would beg him to go out somewhere with her and she send him so many IMs he came up with other email accounts just so he could sign on and get his work done. Her postings on here making fun of Howie's kissing are unbelievable to say the least.
And numerous sexy emails between "other Lisa" and Howie are private and I'll leave it at that, but my understanding is that they both enjoyed whatever communicating they did. And Lisa S, who has never met Howie seems to act as an authority on his life over emails they both wrote willingly to each other and thinks you can analyze me the same ? There are a few other women who post on here whose name I didn't list before and they've backed off from emailing so I won't list them now. But "anonymous" is NOT ok for one side. You want to bash Howie's dating, go ahead, but calling him all the names, and me too, is wrong.
what's interesting, is that I have posted on here under other names or anonymous and you were COMPLIMENTARY towards me, compassionate and so on and yet, I was just posting to flush out your identies, which did help. I've posted all sorts of things just to show you eventually how ludicrioius this kind of thing can be. At least 50 postings are mine,
So, you can not figure out someone by limited information, espeically over emails, or a few visits, or here on this blog. So, am I the sweet person you liked in one posting or the other whom you can't believe is having a normal relationship with howie?
I'll tell you this, Howie is very different now that I live here and and live with him, than he was over the emails. In fact, very different. He has in the past few months he's opened up, come out of his shell, just like Lisa k was hoping he would, yes, he did. It's taken a lot of patience but , he's allowing himself to give and receive love better.
Lisa K, you loved him probably more than anyone, and I feel sad for that for you, I explained so much to Howie about what you might have gone through. one thing Howie didn't realize is that online communication feels different to different people. Some thought it meant a lot, others didn't. That's one of the problems with online/email chatting.
the internet has allowed zillions of people to create false identies, and personas all across the world. People find the anonynmity convenient way to hide their dark sides or create sites like this one hoping to hurt others.
I will continue to post things because who Howie is today, the person he is with me, the normal and satisfying and fun life we have together, deserves to be told. He is NOT PERFECT I'd never say that, I don't even know how long we'll be together, but he nor I are the psychos a few of you wish we were.
and I do have empathy for anyone who was hurt by any man or woman, and have posted that before. But, I've been hurt by men who lied and cheated on me, the most horrible feeling in the world. I explained to howie (because of this site) that the women he communicated with thought they were the only ones and so it felt like cheating on them, he understands that now.
Yes, I have sympathy/empathy, but don't you ? Howie has finally in a good healthy relationship, which you all said you wanted for him. And, if we aren't together in the future, he's learned a lot about champagne and stawberries (try it).
nanc it doesn't matter what you post here it's the boy who cried wolf syndrom. no one will believe anything that howie says anymore, real or not and your postings only reflect guilt by association.
Nanc, please do not discuss me in your posts. you really do not know anything about me. You are only hearing one side, and it is a very altered side I am sure.
And second do not feel sad for me. I don't feel sad at all. I am very happy now with Howie out of my life. I miss his humor and intelligence, but that is about it. I am sorry this blog exists because I don't want to read it but I still do. Also you can say or think whatever you want but it is clear to me that he has not been honest with you.
While I am glad Howie has met someone, your posts make me worry for him. You are not helping him one bit and isn't that what someone who truly loves you does. You are not coming across as a kind person in your posts here.
I was hoping he would meet someone who would be great for him , someone that would not be worse for him and make him go farther into denial about his problems. I can see that hasn't happened at all.
By the way, I never hoped Howie would come out of his shell? I don't remember ever saying that or even thinking that. He wasn't in a shell when I spent time with him in person. So where you are getting that from I have absolutely no clue.
What worries me is you show zero humility or kindness in your posts towards others. Even your post to me was a put down. Your posts across as ice cold. Maybe you don't mean it, but sorry, that is how they sound. And what is worse, is every time you write something you don't help Howie, you make it worse for him. That is what really concerns me. Why are you doing that if you care for him the way you say you do? It doesn't seem to be very wise.
Also you are very far off the mark when it comes to me. Your post to me was not kind, it was a put down. Please do not discuss me. I am not on here talking about Howie except for the few posts I made where I signed my name. And do him a favor, and stop posting! Why can't he talk for himself! You talk about him as if he is a child. You sound so incredibly defensive and also you come across as callous and that does not help him. And I don't know you, and I don't care that you are with him and I honestly do not wish you harm. I don't!! But reading what you have written the past day, I REALLY don't think you have any idea how much worse you are making things for him. You should stop that!!
My hope for Howie has always been that be honest about who he is and get some help. You don't seem to be really helping that situation, and that really too bad. I also do not think him meeting one woman is going to magically change everything like you seem to think. You make it sound like meeting you has now made him a changed person. I don't believe it. It just is not that easy or simple to change . He doesn't even think he has problems based on the letter her wrote Lisa S.
Last night I was thinking if I were you, and really cared about Howie, what would I do if there was a blog like this. Would I believe the other women or believe him? I really think that I would not believe him. I hate to say it but it is true. I also would not be posting like you are. You hav cut down all these other women and defended him. I think you should maybe ask yourself what is really best for him and what would calm the blog down and stop people from talking. And instead you have chosen to say things that escalate the situation. Why? You are not helping him.
the other L
to the other l --dont let her bother you dear. your writings were nice and so is your website.
she thinks naming names will stop people from writing but it only makes him/them look more guilty
guilty by association is right!
look how she talks about him : "now he understands" she said like 5 times as if he is a boy not a grown man . as if she had to teach him about the female race and now he is 'normal' because of her teachings. oh yes now he understands- my goodness!
if this man really wanted to stop the blog he can, he'd come on and say sorry i was wrong, h'ed apologize and be a man; he would not send a lady to speak for him how low is that. if nanc really wanted to stop it she could too. she wouldnt attack people and brag about her strawberries and boat rides
if she were my daughter i would be so ashamed of her!
nanc, leave these gals alone; you don't really know who said what; stop it is right!
let your man stand up and be a man for G-d's sake! if he or you wanted to stop this you could, you are going about all wrong i agree, you sound like stupid spoiled children off in the night on a boat and laughing at women he mistreated
SHAME ON THE BOTH OF YOU!
Howie didn't "send me here," again, you've no idea what you are talking about! he has never read rhis blog even though you'd like him to. You have no idea what we talk about and you've no idea what our relatinship is or isn't THAT IS MY POINT.
Lisa K asks me to please stop writing about her - isn't that unbelievable -- yet anyone feels free to write about me who I am or not and Howie, same thing?
I decided to come on here and become part of the conversation because why not? Strangers are talking about me and Howie and Howie's lilfe, for which I have a lot more knowledge of, seems like they've gone nuts analyzing his sexual orientation for a man I live with and have intimate relationship with.
There is much I would like to say and I could answer and explain to you about some very private, and extremely personal issues Howie has dealt with , with me, but that would be putting too much out here and while it might give you a glimpse into Howie's real true completely open and honest self. but I'm not going to share with people on here when I know some people are still 2-faced with him. Sending flirty, enticing emails yet coming on here to trash him.
You are still analyzing me saying why I doing this is to make you stop writing? I wrote the reason I'm posting IS NOT FOR YOU but to tell the truth about MY LIFE and by the way, my life with Howie is mine. of course, I knew you'd rip me to shreds for posting, but I am NOT WRITING to get your approval. And I'm not writing to come across as "nice" or someone whom you think is good for Howie.
I will continue to post a response frequently just consider me part of this blog now.
I told Howie last night that I finally posted a manifesto , yep, angry and all. it's my own free will to do what I want and I just won't be silent about the truth any more.
Lisa K, you say if this situation was yours and you were in my shoes , you would just believe everything posted. you don't know what you'd do, and whether its the same and what I'm doing or not, doesn't make your way the best. When Howie had a bad review, you wrote letters or emails or something defending the heck out of him, so I suspect you'd probably stick up for him here to some extent.
the reason I first starting posting under false persona was indeed to get more information to talk to Howie about. After months of listening and being part of your conversations, then talking with howie, and him opening up all his emails and so on, we did (as I posted earlier) have things to talk about and did. But, low and behold, Howie would get emails from the same people on here flirting and trying to entice him into online chatter again.
The girl from Donniville,(You've stopped emailing so I won't list your name) Lindz, R from Huntington, J from Tahoe would STILL flirt and be completely 2-faced. It was then I realized more about this blog. When I would post something untrue (oh he's still emailing me or other false personas) some of those people would reveal themselves and their intention to bring Howie down.
Of course, who can forget Gayle from Dracut, MA. Ladies, 10000000s of Ims emails and phone calls. She called the casino pretending to be me, she flew out here to see him while she posts under a variety of names here and bashes him, she sent so many cards and letters, IMs begging him to write her (minniemouse is one of her monikers by the way), she created more than 200 email accounts just to get around Howie's blocking her emails, so WHO PURSUED WHO? but, yet on here she trashes him. and so we called the dracut police got a lawyer and have had to put an end to her 2-faced communication,
So the lying on here is mutifaceted. Would you still not be angry? Well, I'm definately angry.
Then the harassment started, scary scary stuff. being followed nearly run off the road, coming to our house late at night, endless texting and calls. A restraining order was necessary.
So, Lisa K and anyone else, you don't know whether I'm nice or not, you see the end result of 9 months of patience now ended.
my posts make Howie look like a little kid? And you want him to look psychotic?
Anonymous? Not much longer, I will finish out your names and addresses if this continues. And i have a few more names. I should have posted them a long time ago, so that there is a level playing field. isn't that "fair?"
I think it would be more fair to post YOUR emails to Howie, not just the ones from him you've posted. Shall we? Would you like your friends and family to know how you desribed your sexual fantasies and the dark things YOU wanted to do ? Yeah, I think that's next. Who shall we start with?
Then Lisa S (Sinervo) can analyze your mental state of mind given the types of things you wrote about. That way she can help " figure out just what the hell it was [you] were involved in" since she is an expert in dream and conversation analysis especially with those she doesn't know.
So, who wants to go first?
I do not want "nancy" to post my name or my emails to Howie. I did write very graphic descriptions to him but never thought they'd become public.
Whoever "minniemouse" is who started this thing, will you take it down so I don't have to go through emails becoming public.
the last 'ranting' & 'raving" by howie/aka 'nanc' really speaks for itself and says it all
only a coward would threaten others instead of coming clean
it is a typical abuser mentality if any of you have read about abusers. this is classic abuser talk here
just ignore it
we all have lots of emails too we could send to higher ups, newspapers or more or post too if we wanted to. no one has posted any of the sick ones here; the blog isnt about ruining howie or threatening anyone. it is to warn others and for talking about what some might have gone through
Howie, my last name (Sinervo) has always been readily available to anyone online who attempted to identify me. I posted a favourable review on Amazon about your CD with my entire name Lisa Sinervo and I have never removed that out of fear of being connected to this blog. It's still there http://www.amazon.com/I-Cant-Believe-Sang-That/dp/B000005EMC/ref=sr_1_1/105-4902094-5858051?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1185083958&sr=8-1
There is a better way out of this situation you find yourself in than seeking revenge. I discourage you doing it as much as I've discouraged anyone doing it to you.
You can be a different person and redeem yourself but not by hiding and telling more lies and being vengeful.
MinnieMouse has control over this blog and she is obviously not wanting you to look favourible. No doubt that is why she continues to let "nanc" post. Because every single one of the comments made by "nanc" or "nancy" make you look very bad.
If this were my blog, and it's not, I'd start restricting comments until approved if the main purportrator used it for vengeful purposes. Might not be fair, but that is the reality you face.
Choose the higher path Howie, there is a way out of this situation but it isn't going to be by bringing anyone down with you. Sometimes it is when you hit bottom that life begins.
Lisa S
You are so right ! All your posts speak for themselves, two-faced emailing Howie while trashing him here.
Cowards are those who post anonymously.
And once again, you post claiming I do not exist. I guess you figure it can't possibly be true that someone is in a relationship with Howie so it must be Howie using Nancy's name, which is not only not true, it's ludicrous as usual.
And now I'm an abuser? You wrote, this is "typical abuser mentality...classic abuser talk" So now I've abused someone and what do you have to back up that accusation?
You write, "the blog isnt about ruining howie or threatening anyone," - that's BS if there ever was any. This blog shows there really is "Nothing like a woman scorned."
Want to 'warn others?' here is a simple thing you can do, and it's really tough and difficult too, what you do is this: When you don't want to communicate with someone, don't. Don't click 'send,' when you don't want to write someone an email or if you don't like them, don't call or return calls to some guy you really don't like. Too hard to do?
As for me and Howie, the TRUTH is today was a nice day, out on the lake and then resting. We enjoyed dinner at our favorite place on the water and will be watching a movie in a little bit. It's not bragging silly girls, it's just reality.
This is NOT about revenge, Lisa S, again you seem to think you can analyze my mind. I will continue to correct false postings. My posts and they are mine alone, not Howie's, are about MY LIFE with him. "revenge" is about getting back at someone, not a state of mind I care about.
My postings are about telling what I know about Howie and isn't that the purpose of this site? I have dated him for over a year lived with him for many months now and I have a perspective on him too? But my experiences don't count because they are favorable?
It's so odd you want to restrict any favorable comments about Howie (calling those "vengeful!") and instead only allow people to post who will say negative things, that itself says all anyone who reads this all they need to know -- that this site is only for those who want to post hateful things.
Lisa writes, "Choose the higher path,...sometimes it is when you hit bottom that life begins." Is that what you're trying to do? To bring Howie down to a 'bottom state,' well choose the higher path Lisa for yourself and anyone else. It's not healthy or a "higher state" to be analyzing some guy you never met, or giving advice to people you don't know, or spending so much time (anyone) writing about a guy you once knew or dated or emailed or whatever.
Try living a higher life, full of grace and beauty, Take time out to relax and move past something from your past. And when you don't want to read anything here, don't. If you don't want to post, don't. If you don't want to talk to Howie, don't email or call him.
This is NOT about revenge, Lisa S, again you seem to think you can analyze my mind. I will continue to correct false postings. My posts and they are mine alone, not Howie's, are about MY LIFE with him. "revenge" is about getting back at someone, not a state of mind I care about.
My postings are about telling what I know about Howie and isn't that the purpose of this site? I have dated him for over a year lived with him for many months now and I have a perspective on him too? But my experiences don't count because they are favorable?
It's so odd you want to restrict any favorable comments about Howie (calling those "vengeful!") and instead only allow people to post who will say negative things, that itself says all anyone who reads this all they need to know -- that this site is only for those who want to post hateful things.
Lisa writes, "Choose the higher path,...sometimes it is when you hit bottom that life begins." Is that what you're trying to do? To bring Howie down to a 'bottom state,' well choose the higher path Lisa for yourself and anyone else. It's not healthy or a "higher state" to be analyzing some guy you never met, or giving advice to people you don't know, or spending so much time (anyone) writing about a guy you once knew or dated or emailed or whatever.
Try living a higher life, full of grace and beauty, Take time out to relax and move past something from your past. And when you don't want to read anything here, don't. If you don't want to post, don't. If you don't want to talk to Howie, don't email or call him.
my posts make howie look bad ? and your posts make him look ... good?
Nanc or Howie, I don't think it would be good for anyone to post the actual graphic descriptions of the squishing of animals no matter who wrote about it.
I think there are many positive things to say about Howie which is why I left my favourable Amazon review of his talents online with my real name, for all to see.
Lisa S
howie, akda 'nanc', every rant and rave makes you look guilty and insane
you are trying to paint howie as this normal, great guy, if it is all the womens fault, for that you are enabling abuse and defending abuse (human & animal)&
your ranting and raving makes him look more guilty
this says it all. this is a quote from the John Schiff site he wrote here.. the way you are posting about howie, your idyllic life , the lake, how wonderful it is is sick, sick, sick. it shows a lack of a conscious. a low moral compass, it shows an unempthetic and heartless mind; that is why no one believes it is a lady writing & why they think it is howie. or maybe howie has found another narcissist/sociopath. the perfect partner in sin. how perfect for him. many blessings but who the hell cares that you go to the lake
John Schiffs page says: "Empathizing with crustaceans and insects may be difficult, [b] but few people are unable to see the evil in torturing and killing mice, cats and dogs. Those who cannot see the wrong in these acts are seriously out of touch with their conscience." [b]
your postings howie/nanc only show that you are out of touch with your conscious as he says. you don't like being analyzed? tough shit. when you post so much info defensive heartless insane nonesense abut a man who has hurt tons of women, lied to many outright, who has knowingling and admittingly emailed and talked about stepping on and sitting on and squishing the guts out of kittens, puppies, mice and hamsters, if i were you, id shut the hell up and take the high road instead as she advises
if howie really has changed as y'all proclaim, all the letters and talk WILL STOP with time, but u should shut the hell up for now
TAKE THE HIGH ROAD is right
or you will have women sending their emails & letters from howie to public officials, newsppapers, jobs and more, this is not a threat, i have no such emails myself, but lots do from what i hear. it doesn't matter if they participated or not, who gives a darn damn, they are not the ones under scruitiny in the public eye! he still wrote he wanted women to sit on and squash the guts out of kittens,puppies, mice, hamsters, and more. he still lied and manipulated
he told tons of ladies they were the only one, and in the other l's words treated them like crap, take the high road howie, apologize and then shut up!
lisa s is smart as hell in what she says.....
your mother should be ashamed of you is right. both of your mothers should.
ever hear the expression 'me thinks though dost protest too much?" that is how you sound
if you don't care about revenge, why are you outright threatening to post peoples names and addresses and telling them you will post their emails. Nancy, you ARE threatening these women. What happenes when you threaten a wild bird or upset animal? You ARE making things worse.
me thinks though dost protest too much" is very accurate!
you DO sound like someone without a conscious . and you do talk about howie as if you are emasculating him & you are educating him about life. it is tasteless & grotesque to mention all the lovely things you together to do women he has hurt. It is heartless and very very odd and strange. That alone shows you are lacking something in the heart department.
i think these women have much more on you then you have on them, take the high road
If you truly are a happy content and long term couple, this will die out over time but not if you threaten women and defend someone who REALLY HAS done a lot of bad and hurtful things. Not the way to go about it.. Get some help and live a quiet life.
http://www.clearviewtreatment.com/
This place as treatment for people with Sexual Addiction/Compulsivity I'm sure there are others.
Check youself in Howie. Call toll free 800-573-0770
They can help. It's got to be better than the mess you're in now.
we don't have an idyllic life. we have a regular life.
I am not out of touch with anything people feel here, I am simply stating what my experiences are.
I don't understand why anyone could make any statements about my life and say as a statement of fact what it is and call me names, decide that I hav a mental illness because I am describing my life as it is, not what anyone else thinks it is.
Its like watching a movie and then at the end, someone tells me - this is what you life is, when i go home and know it's nothing like that. but someone wants me to say that is what it is. I am the one living it. that's where my anger comes from.
i have posted before and here again, I am NOT defending anyone, and couldn't defend anyone for something they said to someone else, I'm just posting what my experiences are and they are not the same, not at all.
maybe enough said.
I know your minniemouse from Dracut, MA very well. And when she gets ahold of you, she never lets go. Howie, I will email you one way or the other directly look for an email from me, there is much I could tell you. I am not commenting on the other things on here as it sounds like everyone is upset. But, I know G very well and she is not a stable person.
no offense William, but Howie nor I are very interested in getting into the stablity of anyone on here. we all have our own problems and I wouldn't want anyone (!) to go through what we are from old flames, or ex's, or others trying to share private things. you can email Howie if you want, but I'm focused here on just presenting the truth about my life or time with Howie and not about tearing down anyone else.
"nanc", the most important point is your experiences and opinions are biased by the newness your knowing him. one year is nothing. how old are you dear? i have known howie for many years, many, multiple years. i had the strawberries and champagne a few times at least, sorry to disappoint you
why can't howie talk for himself. are you his mother? he has said things around town and we know he reads this. bullshit he doesn't care, he reads it!
in the time i have known him, he has told me all kinds of conflicting stories about various ladies, much of which i found out later turned out to be outright lies. he has never been faithful to any woman, not one woman, ever "Nanc", not ever his entire life, EVER! just ask him "nanc". you are astonished that people say you sound mentally ill-it is because you sound delusional and plain silly
how old is howie "Nanc?" why don't you tell us how old he is ? set the record straight for us. you met him on match.com? was his age right on there 'nanc'?
ask him how old is he and let us know here..
how will you feel one or two years from now 'nanc' if you find out much or all of what he told you was lies, that presents he gave you were not really presents but used items belonging to other women? the definition of empathy is being able to put yourself in another shoes 'nanc,' are you capable of that? i agree, you do not have appear to have that character trait. i believe you will be very embarassed and ashamed in a few years as I see these nice ladies are . it feels like rape to be treated like this 'nanc.' it IS a form of mental rape to lie and manipulate peoples minds like howie has. what if you find out you are not the only one he told certain things to or did certain things with. how would you feel to find he told you this just to play with your head and heart. you seem to think you are more special than the rest of us now 'nanc' do you think you are above being treated like this by him, because you have truly affected howie and now is he is a new man only because of you nanc? these women thought they were special too nanc. howie told them so. he told me so too nanc (and we had strawberries & champagne nanc gee whiz you arent the only one) so did his ex wife at one time . why are you so special and so wonderful and so unique compared to all these other fine ladies ? it is childish delusional thinking, that is why people think you sound mentally ill, it is because of what you say nanc. you came on here and you named these names and i re-read all the posts on this blog 3 or 4 times, a few of the ladies you named outright in particular, seem like genuine, caring, smart and nice ladies who were sincerely hurt and confused by howies mistreatment. yet you wrote about them like dirt on this blog. like dirt nanc. like absolute dirt. you aren't focused on tearing down anyone else? bullshit 'nanc! you did and you have since you first wrote on here
how do you know howie is telling you the truth about any of these ladies? he has no history of truthfulness or of good relationships with any woman. tell us nanc, what is so special about you, that you have changed this? why are you so unique compared to the rest of the us? we would like to know your secret in turning a man around. maybe we can do it too nanc if we can only be like you.
I think the messages from William and the one asking minnemouse to shut down the blog are from Tahoe and Howie in particular.
Be careful about responding. You have a loose cannon here.
Sure, why not, nanc already admits to making fifty false posts. What would stop her/him from pretending to be the scared innocent victim, the guy with the scoop on the blog owner, NOTHING, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. Anything that further's Howie's cause will be suspect even if true.
He has cried wolf too often for anyone to come to his rescue again.
Howie was writing back and forth to Gail. It was NOT all one way. I saw letters and emails he wrote her. Maybe he did flirt with her and play with her mind.
There are probably two sides to this story.
I SAW LETTERS HE WROTE HER.
Age? How old is Howie? I noticed on match.com it said he was 48. On another site it also said 48. Is that not his age?
I want to know Nanc's secret too!!!!!!!! Maybe she can write a dating book for all of us! Nanc, throw out that other dumb book idea, what was it? "Women who manipulate men with sex? Oh yeah, sure." or was it "women who use sex to blackmail their men"? Delusional? YUP!
I will try to think of a clever title for this one. How to turn a lying asshole into a kind and caring man sounds awfully boring.....
Catholic Creature Squashing
Big Assed Mama (CCSBAM)
maybe "How to be a Better Mousetrap - 101 Cut and Paste "Secrets" to Drive your Man Wild" *
* This is a parody of course and not an insinuation that nanc would ever do such things in actual life.
The last five messages were all from the same IP so watch what is being said... people are posting all kinds of crazy things now.
Sorry, I meant the last 8 posts are all from the same IP, not 5 so people are continuing to pretend to be all sorts of things on here
The last eight posts DEFINITELY ARE NOT from the same person, but from five different different IP addresses in different locations. Two were written by the same person. Not all IP addresses have a geographic location. It can be the location of the server company that is listed so it can be misleading.
The last two posts are NOT true, and were not written by me. Those posts originated in Lake Tahoe. I work for company that has access and is owned by google, and I am a software engineer and that is all I'll say. I was the one who wrote and signed the original "IP Tracker email"
I will also tell you that minniemouse or the blog starter is not from Dracut Massaschusetts. The blog was started in Lake Tahoe and the original post was from Lake Tahoe.
At this point, there is not a record of all the IP addresses of each post, but it is true a great deal of them come from Lake Tahoe.
Only google employees have access to this information and I could get in a lot of trouble for telling you this so I won't do it again.
But just so all of you do know, the posts I said came from Howie, I believe really did. His emails are from the same IP address as those posts.
Correction-Regarding the last eight posts phony IP tracker mentioned. Two were written by one person and two were written by a different person. Then there are four other IP addresses. All 8 are NOT from the same person.
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I post anonymously on here and don't like people saying where the posts come from. If you work for google you SHOULD get in trouble for saying where all the posts come from. I thought this was supposed to be anonymous. You are playing right into their hands helping him figure out who is posting. That's not right! Who knows why you are doing this.
You are right. BUT, the ONLY reason I said something was to show everyone (HELP everyone) see that he is making some up of these posts himself. He is very obviously trying to scare and manipulate people into not writing about him. Do you understand? I will not expose anyone else.
Actually, I will not tell anyone when he is posting either anymore. I should not have done that and I am not sure of this last post either. People, realize that it is hard to tell exact geographics sometimes because of server locations. Some users know how to change their addresses too. Just realize that he is definitely posting, and his posts are highly manipulative so be careful. That was my point.
i only one wrote one lettering last evening. and i am still awaiting nanc's answers to my most inquistions. i want to know howies real age and what he told you nanc. and i wish to know how you are more special than all of us who came before you. maybe we can learn and heal from this dear. i am not the one who made jokings about a book
i also would like to know how you would feel in 1, 2 or 5 years if you find out much of what howie told you really was likes. what if you got used panties as a gift that were used in sex acts with other ladies..... but what if howie told you he bought them just for you...or some other items... how will you feel if you discover he realy is writing with others right now about sex things and you think you are the only one
i believed him too nanc i believed what he told me about other ladies. that they were bothering him but he wasnt really as interested as they were, or that he didnt want to hurt their feelings or that they made it up in their heads and he needed restraining orders. i belived all he told me like you are nanc, i can see why you believe him dear..he can be quite convincing and charming
I will always be surprised at how it is people can post inaccurate things as statements of facts, but it keeps happening. Howie has never posted on this site, despite "IP tracker's" accusations. While I know who it is and the name hasn't been posted here before, it's too bad you 'assume' or make a false statement like that. Don't you know Howie's writing? Can't you tell this isn't him? We don't have the same writing style. (I didn't list your name because Howie says privacy is super important to your job or something).
I never said I was better than anyone else. I have only posted what my relationship with him is like now as clarification for what others are saying it is. Who knows how I'll feel later. You can all throw a party if we break up.
And if you want to talk to Howie directly, you know how to reach him.
nanc, the defence you are offering is a red herring. who cares what you post? we'd all assume you share the same IP address as howie if you're living together.
the suspicion and accusation is, william's post came from the same source as the nanc post in reply.
this is highly suspicious because you claim "G" is under a court order i presume to leave you alone. Is "William" a show to the court to get the blog shut down?
i won't worry about that, this was a nice supportive list while you were busy with your boat rides and BBQ's. now it's just like being back in middle school. that is enough to drive the posters away. i'd have never thought of that strategy. well done!
or maybe it was the claim that the scared blogger and william are the same. who cares! it's all headgames now.
nanc, you and howie DO have the same exact writing style. the letter written to lisa S looks exactly like your writing, the tone, the words, everything about it
your comments just made ip tracker appear 100% correct, howie is trying to manipulate this blog
you ignored kay's questions. i'd like the answer about howies age for one thing. i don't care about how you would feel if you got used panties too. you apparently are a goddess and are way way way above the rest of us, but i didnt know he lied about his age too. so please verify since you are his self-appointed spokesperson. you put yourself in the role so if you don't answer, it just makes both of you look even worse
also nanc, why would anyone have a party if your break up? i could care less if you stay together or break up. the blog never was about you. you are a moot point as someone once wrote. you comment is comical as it shows how self centered you are.
no one cares nanc! get it! since you first started posting you have continued to make self centered moronic stateemnts like "i know what you are up to!!" or "some of you girls have met me" as if this is high school and we all are jealous. let me straighten you out nanc. NONE OF US ARE JEALOUS OF YOU or want to be you or in your shoes with Howie. Do you get it finally??
you are a narcissist, that is why people think you are howie. i do think you exist but i think you speak for him word for word, no woman with true depth, with character, with a big heart and soul would ever attack other woman like you have done on this blog. it is one thing to defend your man, it is another to attack and actually blame women who have real reasons to be upset as you have done.
I have insomnia and I was just reading Nancy's posts and I have to make some comments. Then I am just done with all of this. I am sick of it and I just don't care anymore. I wish the person would delete it. It helped me see I wasn't the only one and for that I am grateful. But now the whole thing is crazy and should be shut down. Come on Minnie, you can do it!
Anyhow Nancy made this comment: "Its like watching a movie and then at the end, someone tells me - this is what you life is, when i go home and know it's nothing like that. but someone wants me to say that is what it is. I am the one living it. that's where my anger comes from."
Nancy, I know how you feel. I really do. I had this image of Howie for a long time that was completely shattered when he started treating me badly after giving me so much attention for months and months. What did he tell me? It was he had never given any woman this much attention and time since early college. And then when I first started reading this blog, it felt like a movie to me too. I never knew Howie lied to me so much until this blog. So I can understand how you feel. My time with him in person was also very normal too and we did a lot of nice and fun and normal things. We had a great time together in person. Really great. Howie has many great attributes-he is funny and smart and such a hard worker! I give him credit for all those things. I just thought of him as a guy who wasn't great with intimacy, but I never considered him or thought of him as a womanizer or liar until this blog. SO you can see how naive and trusting I was. And this thing with him hurt me very badly because it damaged my ability to trust others. That is what I am the most upset about it. It has affected me with other men now. I could tell you a lot and even show you things so you could clearly see how distorted what he told you about even me one person was. But I don't care to. It is behind me. But maybe you can imagine how shocked I was to find out that so much of what he told me was a lie. That is why I wrote him about the blog in the first place. We hadn't been writing much and I had moved on and was dating. When I thought of Howie then, it was never with anger, but more with sadness that it didn't work out but that happens. We all have it happen and I had accepted it Nancy. I did not feel like a woman scorned either Nancy. Not at all.
Also to correct two of your comments about me. I never said I didn't enjoy emailing the fantasy stuff with Howie and that it wasn't my decision. I have no clue what that has to do with anything or why you had to use my name in that context. I have never denied that nor have I ever told anyone the details of the fantasies and things we talked about.. I mean he swore me to secrecy and told me I was the only one he trusted this too so for two years I believed he meant that. I never have had someone lie to me like this. I kept my promise to him to not tell anyone because I cared about him even though things did not work out with him and I.
Second thing, I was trying to figure out what you meant about me wishing he would come out of his shell. That is not what I used to say to him. What I would tell him all the time is that what I hoped and wished for him, is that someday he would be really honest with someone and face all of his problems in an honest way. That is what I said and I still wish it for him because he has so many great attributes.
You may not believe this but I am sorry and sad this blog exists. But again, its karma. It didn't happen out of the blue and if Howie had made different choices, the blog would not be here. Yet the two of you act like victims and that is just wrong.
He also clearly has not done what I had hoped for him, which is to be honest with himself and others. He isn't being honest with you, that is very obvious and I do believe one day you will see it. I really did care about him and I don't think you really know the whole story or picture. The part you wrote about me interpreting everything differently because it was email was very hurtful. If you saw all the emails from him
and if you really knew and understand what he put me through , you would be embarrassed that you made such a comment to me.
I hope when someday if he tells other people lies like that about you you will remember this. I don't wish it upon you because I wouldn't wish it upon anyone, but unfortunately it will happen. I remember sitting in his living room and he was showing me all of these emails on his computer and telling me about each of these women and how he couldn't get rid of them. I thought to myself then, one of these days he is going to treat me like that and it happened Nancy. It will happen to you too unfortunately. I hope not, but inside don't you think it might? If not, wow, you are more naive than I was. I kind of knew it but I ignored it and that was my fault completely!
FINALLY, and I KNOW this is all long, but this is my last post so indulge me!! I also said I would not do what you are doing. I wouldn't Nancy, sorry. I would defend him to my friends and family off line but I would never ever do what you are doing. I called him on his BS and his problems and he did not like that one bit. At an outside glance and I could be wrong, you are not doing that. That is why I don't think you are good for him in the long run. I know you don't care and sure I could be wrong, but that is my opinion and I'll stick with it.
This is my last post for real. I am tired of this blog. The only reason I wrote recently was another shocker to find out the blue pants were not a gift for me at all but used by others. That is just disgusting and any woman would be upset by that. It just is totally unbelievable to me how many lies he told me when I was there for him and I cared truly cared about him, the person inside, not the one in front of the crowds. There is something really wrong here and to me it is sad. I don't wish him or you any harm and I am sorry about the harassment. No one should be treated badly like that. It is back to karma though, and that is how I'll leave this.
The other L
the thing is you don't know what we have dealt with and what we haven't, which of his issues or mine we've helped each other. For anyone to say they can KNOW with certainty what kind of life we have or how we are toward each other, is simple impossible. I can't know what your experiences are with Howie and I don't try and tell you what they were or weren't, that would be just as stupid as you telling me what mine are. I don't have ANY illusions about what ANY man tells me. I have been through a lot in my life.
If there is anything that makes me different than most, it's that I am not shocked or surprised when people disappoint me, or lie, or have significant issues and problems in their life. The reason is that I've discovered most people do some or all of those things. In every relationship, people disappoint and hurt each other. It's when that happens, what does it mean, where does it come from, what happened in their childhood that is causing that? So, I generally react to these types of things by trying to find the root cause. Howie and I have been good for each other, that's how it is. I don't have any concerns about what strangers who don't know me have decided I am based on some posting on this site, it's as all things are online, limited.
People who meet online are foolish to think the person they're typing too is any more than some person typing back. I have friends whose marriages have ended because one person spent hours typing to others, people's hidden dark sides find outlets online because they can type and let their mind go to who knows where, then they close the computer and walk away. There are 1000s of stories about online chatting and the problems it causes and how very few people who meet online end up being able to form real relationships because when they get together communicating is so different, not impossible but different. To make the assumption you know everything about anyone by what you learned online is as silly as someone saying they know all they need to know about you by online communicating. Yes, even if you met a few times or wrote for years. reading a book doesn't tell you much, reading tons of letters doesn't tell you much, reading and writing tells you want you hear, what you interpret it as based on your life experiences. When people were posting horrible things about me calling me names and making fun of whether or not howie has a girlfriend, I got on here to post my experiences because what you were doing wasn't right. Very hypocritical to belittle, make fun, outright lies, many false identities and so on, without some balance of the truth that I know. You say I am wrong to post such 'uncaring' comments yet, you post things about me before I started posting that were ridiculously cruel. And while writings online are typically like that, in a public place it was as wrong as anything you said howie ever said to you.
not everything that happened was online hon
but you ARE a goddess
write your book, you'll make millions
saving criminals with your love n affection, okay, maybe just this criminal
Nancy, this really is my last post. To your last sentence, though I say: HUH??? I don't get it at all. I never said anything unkind about you before you even wrote?? I have no clue what you are talking about. I'll go back and look in case I am wrong, but honestly, I never heard of you or knew you existed. When you first started posting, I had no idea who you were. I thought maybe you were just a friend or a fellow comic, or Howie himself? I had no idea.
I really am sorry if you think I said cruel things about you, but Nancy, I didn't. If you hadn't put my name on here I never would have said a word about anything frankly. I wrote one post defending Howie, and a few emails to him about the blog because I was so upset and hurt, and suddenly my name was on this blog. So I don't know what you are talking about honestly I don't.
I asked Howie many times in email if he was seeing someone and he didn't say. He always told me even within the past year, that he couldn't be with just one person. I even told him you can tell me the truth, I won't be hurt now, which was true, and he just said he didn't have time for anyone. So I assumed he wasn't and was still just chatting with lots of people. I always told him I'd be happy if he met someone great for him and could be honestly close with someone, and I meant it. I really did. I hope you are good for him, really I do. I won't correct your other statements because I don't care, you don't know me and you obviously don't get certain things and can't. But clearly you have not been told everything, but that is ok because it is in the past. I am so way beyond it all now and it isn't important to me now. I wish the blog would GO AWAY just like you do. This blog just happened to bring it up for me all over again-the pain and unhappiness. I don't wish it upon you or anyone. And nothing I said in NO WAY compares to what he put me through. You are so wrong about that you have no idea how wrong you are, but you seem to want to have the last word and I don't know why. I tried to be nice to you and honest with you. I have nothing else to say.
I apologize for the public forum, it isn't my style, BUT you brought up my name first and I responded. I don't think you have made decisions that are good for him and by that I mean, you haven't helped his cause on this blog. You have made him look so much worse and why you are doing that is beyond me. You appear to be an enabler. That is clear to me sorry. If you aren't, I am sorry I said it, but online you have over and over blamed women and you come across as unkind and cold. But I already said that. I'd love to see him change in certain ways but enabling him sure doesn't help and you know what, people don't change. I learned that a long time ago. They just don't. And it doesn't matter what you have gone through in private, you still are blaming others for his behavior right out here in the open for all to see. Can't you see that? You have made him look so much worse.
THIS REALLY IS MY LAST POST. But I felt had to correct your last sentence.
I am done. If you say something else, I am just not going to respond.
L
Your emotional and irrational reactions illustrate your lack of understanding and ability to accept another's point of view. When people react as you did with violent explusions of such anger over something so innocuous as a person's opinion it's got nothing to do with the person they are directing it at but something to do yourself, not me.
Your interpretation of what I meant by my earlier posting today is yours not mine and proves exactly what I wrote - that the receiver of information filters their interpretation through their experiences. I meant it from my perspective. Everyone's point of view is (1) true for themselves (2) valuable information and (3) their own. I own my perspective and you own yours.
this morning I saw a sad report on the news about a family, wife and 2 girls murdered and I was thinkin about the important things in life and then thot about you here.
None of you know a thing about me other than these typed words. I have known what it's like to lose family members you love at a young age and older too. Love lost is horribly painful in any capacity.
But "this blog" and past experiences with Howie, while important to your own lives are NOT the total sum of him or me, or you, but at this point and in the scope of what's important, the people who love you and care about you , and hopefully we all have some of those, are what is important; tearing down Howie and me too can't really be more important than clinging to those who lift you up. Lashing out at me for having a different experience doesn't change your experience or mine. they are different.
I'm sad about the war, the family murdered yesterday, the people in Tahoe who've lost everything they own in the recent fires; I've got my own stuff going on too, there is so much more important things than all this.
And to Lisa or anyone else, I was never writing to "you" as an individual; I didn't choose to respond to each point "you" or another "you" made. I posted general responses. If "you" (whomever you are) think me posting the truth about my relationship makes him look worse than "you" posting he is a criminal, my opinion is that perspective is odd.
oh and just for clarification, I didn't think Lisa K posted in anger except when she said she did. It's the postings from "kay" and others 'screaming' at me is the anger I was referring to, just to be clear. I have posted I thought Lisa K truly seems to have cared about Howie.
she wasnt emotional and rational! why are you attacking her more. why are you calling her those things
you are still being awful
and you havent answered the questions at all
No Lisa wasn't being emotional, if you would have read the last post I said I was referring to the person posting under the guise of "kay" -- in other words 'YOU' - I wrote the post after reading "Kay's" earlier post, before Lisa K posted her afternoon comments.... and then I posted the 2 clarification comments which "kay" failed to read, but your anger continues to prove my comments, no reason to be so irrational and illogical I wasn't talking about Lisa at all, it's "kay" and other screamers.
Minniemouse is Lindsay. She goes by Lindz too. I asked her to take it down.
how do you know it is Lindsay?
i swear you think you run this blog now don't you.
having a new girfriend hardly excuses howie
i don't like that he has a girlfriend spokesperson and cant speak for himself. he said the blog is unimportant to him? that is SICK. i cant believe howie lets a girl speak for him
you sure came along at a convenient time for him, kind of suspicious
u said he didnt send you but so what. you still are speaking for him and its terrible things you say. shoving in peoples faces-about the boat, the straberies. i had them too, big deal!
he should apologize! he should get professional help. ill stop talking about him when he admits he was wrong on this blog and tells us. if lindsay shuts it down, we can start another one you know.
cuz he is getting away with criminal activity by having you take over this blog and speaking for him
are you his mother for god's sake?
you come on here and say all of us particpated too but that is not the point. a woman who would just overlook all this like you are has a screw loose! you are so confident you are different. ,i do wish this on you nanc. i hope you eat crow in a big way and run home to wherever you came from not cuz i want howie but cuz but only because of what you are doing. you are defending an abuser!!
he needs to come on here and say he is sorry to people, he has never repented. his letter to
lisa s showed he thought he did nothing wrong u repeated his same words. you are defending a womanizer and mental abuser. plus the animals of course. are you telling us nanc that you dont fantisize with him about the animal crushing?
are you proud of that?
you're blaming Lindsay! how do you even know Lindsay. maybe he screwed her over like these others, how can you say it is everyone else but howie. do you know how stupid that sounds? it is ridiculous
I didn't post that MinnieMouse was Lindsay, don't ASSUME what you don't know, although that is the typical response here. If you remember, Lindsay's friend posted the blog was hers.
Once again I am not speaking for Howie, I am speaking for myself. I don't need anyone's permission to do so - especially Yours or Howie's. If you will notice, I have never spoken of whatever Howie does or didn't do or say or whatever with you. I speak of my knowledge of him.
Do you get permission from someone to post here? Have you asked Howie if it's ok for you to trash him publicly? No? But you think I should get someone's permission? Once again, hypocritical.
If you want to talk to Howie, why not contact him directly? Need an apology from someone in your life, speak directly to the person, would be more meaningful I'm sure.
And again, if "you" are free to post whatever the hell you want, then me too! Without anyone's permission.
"You" think you know what I think? You've no idea.
Once again, I'll repeat myself to the "anonymouse 5:17 posting":
Your emotional and irrational reactions illustrate your lack of understanding and ability to accept another's point of view. When people react as you did with violent explusions of such anger over something so innocuous as a person's opinion it's got nothing to do with the person they are directing it at but something to do yourself, not me.
http://english.cri.cn/974/2006/03/05/271@58062.htm
Gruesome pictures, which first appeared on a website, have been reproduced in recent days in many newspapers. In the first picture, the woman, wearing a cocktail dress with a leopard-print top and black skirt, caresses a tortoiseshell kitten lovingly. Then she puts it on the ground, looks at it - and lowers a stiletto heel on to its head.
Before her QQ address went dead, its owner had several conversations. In one, she is coy, saying "So what?" when asked if the pictures are of her, and then, when asked again, replying: "In theory."
When confronted by a reporter, she became defensive, saying: "Suddenly hundreds of people are on my QQ and cursing me. What's the problem if I crush cats? It's a type of experience. You wouldn't understand."
He Yong, a Beijing representative of the International Fund for Animal Welfare, said the angry response to the pictures had been heartening.
"We are still trying to confirm who it is in the pictures and where it is," he said. "The embarrassing thing is that there are no available laws in China governing this type of misbehaviour.
"We are trying to draft an open letter to the authorities asking for the possibility of creating an animal welfare law."
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The subsequent images are graphic and deeply disturbing. The last photograph shows the woman staring into the distance with a questioning look on her face.
Reporters and amateur sleuths are now trying to find the woman, while media outlets have been flooded with readers' suggestions of what should be done to her.
The location for the sequence has been identified from a stretch of water in the background as being Hangzhou, a picturesque city south-west of Shanghai. A trace on the original website also led there, and the mystery woman has been dubbed "the kitten killer of Hangzhou".
Some newspapers then came up with a new twist - linking the pictures to an international community of animal sadists and fetishists. One website said the sequence was well-known in Japan, where it started life as an advertisement for a brand of stiletto shoes, and identified the woman as a model.
But attention returned to China when an internet surfer came across a 37-year-old woman from Hubei province with the internet identity "Gainmas". She had registered a website in Hangzhou and - the ultimate evidence - had bought a pair of stilettoes on eBay last year.
She was also registered with QQ, a popular Chinese message service, where she wrote of herself: "I furiously crush everything to do with you and me."
Before her QQ address went dead, its owner had several conversations. In one, she is coy, saying "So what?" when asked if the pictures are of her, and then, when asked again, replying: "In theory."
When confronted by a reporter, she became defensive, saying: "Suddenly hundreds of people are on my QQ and cursing me. What's the problem if I crush cats? It's a type of experience. You wouldn't understand."
He Yong, a Beijing representative of the International Fund for Animal Welfare, said the angry response to the pictures had been heartening.
"We are still trying to confirm who it is in the pictures and where it is," he said. "The embarrassing thing is that there are no available laws in China governing this type of misbehaviour.
"We are trying to draft an open letter to the authorities asking for the possibility of creating an animal welfare law."
Crush Video Auteur Stands Trial
Animal rights activists plan protest of Long Island DA's lenient charge against porn videos peddler.
By Robert Masterson
Published 12/30/99
Local animal rights activists are planning to rally and protest at the Jan. 14 trial of Thomas Capriola, a Long Island man accused of making and selling "crush videos," a bizarre subgenre of the amateur pornography market that presents high-heeled women crushing small animals to death. The protest at Suffolk County's First District Courthouse in Central Islip will center on both the practice of videotaping for profit this cruel sexual fetish and the Suffolk County District Attorney's charging of Capriola with a single count of cruelty to animals.
"I got the call at home early in the morning," recalled Chief Roy Gross of the Suffolk County Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals, describing Capriola's May 1998 arrest. "My wife came to me and said, 'You've got to take this call' and started telling me what it was about. I said, 'Come on. What are you telling me?' I had never heard of anything like that before in my life. I don't think there's a word to describe what these people were doing... It was absolutely horrible to review these tapes so we could charge him. It was the most incredible thing I've ever seen in my life." What these people were doing is creating masturbation fantasies for a worldwide market.
Capriola is accused of hiring women to wear high heels and destroy a variety of small animals--among them guinea pigs, mice, turtles, frogs--while being videotaped from the knees down. "Apparently, that's what it is," Gross continued. "They get dressed up in high-heels and the foreplay is fondling the animal with the heels, slowly touching it with the heels and they get a little more aggressive. Then they torture [the animals] by jabbing the heel into their bodies and then eventually crush them and smash them into nothing, just squash them right into the floor...The idea here was to make money. He was selling these videotapes for anywhere from $35 to $100 a piece. He was marketing them through the Internet.
As a matter of fact, we got a letter from Scotland Yard congratulating us for busting him. They'd been trying to nail this guy for a long time. We grabbed his shipping records for sales out-of- state and out of the country; it's unbelievable to think that not only was he making these videos but that there's such a market for them." Both animal-rights activists and politicians have been working to curb the growing popularity of "crush videos" with new legislation designed to punish the traders.
For Capriola, however, these laws come too late. Despite the fact that New York State made this activity felonious in November of this year, despite the fact that federal law prohibiting the production and sale of "crush videos" has just been signed into law by President Clinton, Capriola's arrest took place while his crimes were still considered misdemeanors and he appears to have "grandfathered" his way out of a serious offense. "It's a $1,000 fine and a year in jail for each offense, but what the actual charge is going to be is up to the [Suffolk County] District Attorney," Gross explained.
"[Capriola] could have thousands of counts; if you look through the videos for every animal that was tortured or mutilated and killed and if he's charged on each one and they all stick...hypothetically he could go away for years and years. It's not up to us [the SPCA] but, of course, we would like to see him get the maximum for something this horrendous." However, the court will only be hearing a single count of animal cruelty (an unclassified misdemeanor) brought against Capriola. Why have the hundreds, if not thousands, of killings documented on his homemade snuff films elicited separate charges? "The evidence we have will support only the one particular charge," Ed Flaherty, Assistant District Attorney for the court, said.
Tying this individual to the deaths of all the animals will require more evidence. Even if we had a thousand counts, the sentences would all merge in any case; you can only serve two years of local time." Capriola also faces a single count of harassment in the second degree (a violation punishable by a fine of up to $250 and/or 15 days in jail) and a single count of criminal possession of marijuana (a class B misdemeanor carrying a penalty of 90 days in jail or 60 to 355 days of probation). However, in an affidavit attached to the charging document and dated April 30, 1998, Vanessa Moore of Patchogue describes her involvement in more than 100 incidents wherein she was videotaped while crushing frogs, mice, lizards and rats. "After drinking six or seven beers, I became intoxicated," Moore testified. "After I was drunk, [Capriola] tied up small frogs and put them on the floor and marked them with white-out.
[He] then told me to crush the frogs and grind and twist a lot with my feet. He then said if I told anyone he'd get mad. He had me do this about 20 times to other animals which became larger..." After she drew the line at guinea pigs, Capriola replaced Moore, hired another woman and, when necessary, dressed himself up for the role.
Thirty-six videos were produced in this fashion, according to the young woman. "I have seen [Capriola] crush approximately 40 mice, four rats and four guinea pigs," Moore continued. "When [he] dresses as a woman, he calls himself 'Debby.' " The relatively slight punishment for such outrageous violations seems to strike local animal rights activists as more than a little outrageous in and of itself. And that slight punishment is only possible if Capriola goes to trial and is convicted. His Dec. 14 trial was adjourned while the judge considers a motion to suppress evidence based on search warrant issues filed by Capriola's attorney, Paul Gianelli. "He had drugs in there--marijuana," said Gross, describing Capriola's room where he lived and operated his movie studio in his mother's house. "He had weapons, but we couldn't charge him for them...He had all types of semi-automatic weapons and assault weapons...but he was in legal possession of these. He had Nazi paraphernalia on his wall--a picture of a storm trooper. He had a fish tank full of live mice in his room.
His mother said she had no knowledge of what he was doing. We have the videos, we have his computer, and we took it right out of there."
Animal rights activists reacted strongly to the news that Capriola might escape with only minimal, if any, punitive action from the state.
"There's a special place in hell for [Capriola]. He's beyond monster," said ADOW, a member of People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals and a fierce Yonkers activist. "They [the Suffolk County District Attorney's office] dropped the ball big time.
They have the tools to take care of people like this, they have the evidence and they have the wherewithal to charge him to a much greater degree. Why aren't they doing this? Possibly they don't realize what a good part of the world is coming to see. Some people in the world are realizing that these are sentient creatures. Other people, some people on Long Island, are still back in the dark ages where animals were considered property. Other places--California, the Bronx--have started to utilize every possible law to prosecute."
"These crush videos are produced and promoted by a depravity that is incomprehensible to most of us," said Louis Gedo, an In Defense of Animals representative from the Bronx. "We want to see Capriola prosecuted for animal cruelty to fullest extent of the law. Let his trial be a message to supporters of this sordid practice that their fetish will not be tolerated and they should seek psychological help rather than sick gratification."
Woman charged with bilking Freightliner out of millions
09:10 AM PDT on Friday, June 29, 2007
Associated Press
Federal agents arrested a former Freightliner employee at her home in Boring Thursday on charges that she was part of a scheme to bilk the company out of $6.7 million.
An indictment says 38-year-old Sabina Veiru secretly worked for two years with a Miami truck parts wholesaler that sold Freightliner parts in Latin America.
She is accused of putting $7.7 million worth of credits into the Freightliner account for a Florida company, JG Trading, which used the credits to get the parts at no cost.
JG then allegedly sent more than $3 million to a Portland bank account controlled by Veiru.
She worked for Freightliner from 1998 to 2005. Her attorney says she maintains she is innocent. Freightliner filed a lawsuit against her and JG in 2006 making many of the claims that appear in the indictment.
TWO WOMEN CONVICTED OF BINGO SKIMMING
Case includes mail fraud, tax evasion
By Beth Musgrave
HERALD-LEADER STAFF WRITER
September 22, 2006
Last year, gamblers shelled out $545 million in Kentucky to play bingo for charities. It's a
mostly cash-based business. And for some, that cash is too tempting.
Yesterday, a federal jury convicted two Madison County women of skimming proceeds
from bingo operations at Jackpot Charity Bingo in Waco and hiding their income from
federal authorities.
Rita Faye Tipton, 64, and Gloria Ann Williams, 65, are the latest to be convicted of
pocketing bingo proceeds. According to the state Office of Charitable Gaming, Tipton
and Williams are two of 26 people who have been convicted of stealing money intended
for charity since 2003.
Tipton said after the verdict that she was not sure whether she and her sister would
appeal. The Tiptons are expected to be sentenced Dec. 8 along with Brenda and Cletis
Merrill Adams, indicted with Williams and Tipton earlier this year. Williams and Tipton
were convicted of conspiracy, two counts of mail fraud and three counts of tax evasion.
The Adamses, who are married, pleaded guilty earlier this month to one count each of tax
evasion rather than go to trial.
"I was very shocked today with the decision of the jury," Tipton said after the verdict.
She said that, after jury selection, Assistant U.S. Attorney Ken Taylor accused her
lawyer, Michael Dean, of striking all of the intelligent people from the jury pool and
leaving Taylor "with a non-educated jury. I just thought that the jury should know that
they were uneducated."
Tipton declined to comment further.
Taylor said yesterday that Tipton misconstrued what he described as a lighthearted
comment between lawyers. Taylor said that he told Dean that he appeared to be striking
potential jurors based on their education level. Taylor said he was not making a crack
about the intelligence of the jury.
The jury took a little less than 21/2 hours to render the guilty verdict on all counts.
Over the past 18 months, several Kentucky residents have been charged with or convicted
of diverting money intended for good causes to their own pockets.
Woman charged after Disney World queue brawl
July 19, 2007
A woman has been charged with beating and kicking another woman she said cut in line at a Walt Disney World attraction in Florida.
Victoria Walker, 51, was released from Orange County jail after posting a $US4,000 ($A4,560) bond yesterday, nearly two months after the altercation while in line for the Mad Tea Party.
Walker was with her 11-year-old daughter when she yelled obscenities at Aimee Krause, 35, and shoved two children with Krause, according to a sheriff's report.
Walker grabbed Krause from behind and began beating her until witnesses pulled the women apart, the document said. Disney security responded and called sheriff officials who made a report and allowed the woman to leave.
But Krause told the Orlando Sentinel that her doctors diagnosed her with a concussion, a herniated disc in her cervical spine and post-traumatic seizures.
This prompted an arrest warrant to be issued for Walker on June 11. She was taken into custody in Alabama and extradited to Florida on Sunday. Walker has been charged with battery.
"Everybody was going to get on the ride," sheriff's spokesman Jim Solomons said. "You shake your head and wonder how this could happen."
Krause said she and others asked at least twice for the ride's operator to call security and have Walker removed.
6 FATAL MISTAKES OF ONLINE DATING AND HOW TO AVOID THEM!
By Dean Shanson
Dating is never easy. Although online matchmaking cuts out the need for seedy bars and corny chat-up lines, it doesn't remove the cause of every difficulty found in every relationship: the people.
We all make mistakes, and when we look back on our past relationships, it's pretty clear that many of us make them all the time. To help reduce your error rate-and increase your chances of success-we've produced a list of the top eight dating mistakes made by online loveseekers.
1. No Picture, No Chance!
Let's be honest-looks are important. Sure, personality is crucial and character comes first, but if you don't get those butterflies in the belly when you see your partner's face, your relationship's got a shorter life expectancy than a J.Lo marriage.
Profiles with pictures get around ten times more responses than those without, and for good reason: anyone who writes to a cyberdater without knowing what they look like is taking a huge risk. What do you do if the e-mails go without a hitch, the telephone calls last hours, but when you meet face-to-face, you find you've been talking to Quasimodo's twin? It's too early for 'it's not you, it's me' and if everything else has gone well, you've got nothing left to blame but looks.
Upload a picture, and you'll get far more responses to choose from. Pick a partner with a picture, and you can put any future problems down to personality.
Tip: Don't have a good picture? Order a photo session from LookBetterOnline.com today! Click here for more details.
2. High Hopes, Low Rewards
Have you ever noticed how the people who have the most dates always seem to be the people who need them least? They're the happy-go-lucky types, the ones with a joy for living who could find a silver lining in a tornado. There you are, sitting at home alone on Saturday night, dreaming of being on a perfect date, and they're out every night without any effort at all.
It's got nothing to do with looks and everything to do with attitude. Successful daters, online and off, regard dating as a chance to meet new people, not a chance to get laid or pick up a wedding ring. If the date doesn't work, well heck, maybe the date's got friends, and at least they've got a new one.
One of the biggest mistakes you can make while dating online is to expect the next person you meet to be The One.
S/he might be. But you won't know it for a while. Lower your expectations, look on each date as a chance to meet someone new, and you'll find yourself meeting new people all the time.
3. Dull Profile, Dull Partners
Okay, we've already said that picture's are important, but the profile is vital too. There are millions of profiles on dating sites across the web-you want to be sure that your profile is interesting enough to both catch someone's eye and capture their interest.
Bunging on any old description filled with typing mistakes and boring clichés is a big no-no-unless you want someone equally boring to write back.
That means you're going to have put in a bit of effort. When you first register to a dating site, by all means write anything just to get the profile up. But once it's up, sit down with a pal, a bottle of wine, and a big bucket of fun, and have a ball putting together a profile that's witty, exciting and attractive. You'll find that like attracts like.
Tip: Need help with yout profile? Order a Profile Makeover from LookBetterOnline.com today! Click here for more details.
4. The Truth, The Whole Truth, And Nothing Like The Truth…
'Witty and exciting' is not however the same as a complete pack of lies. Just because potential dates are complete strangers is not a good enough reason to stretch the truth.
Fibs are no less a mistake in online dating than they are offline.
Remember, every stranger is just a friend you haven't met, and you wouldn't lie to your friends, would you? Well, you wouldn't want to start a new relationship with a lie, anyway.
Be brave. Put down your real age, your real job, your real hair color. Save the whoppers for the taxman.
5. All Speed, No Substance
While love may come at first sight, it rarely comes with first click. There's very little you can tell about someone from their first e-mail, the first phone conversation, or even the first date.
It's a mistake to think you can move from mouse click to heart click in a matter of days.
Online relationships tend to take longer than those take place offline. The reason should be clear: any e-mail says little more than you can find out in the time it takes for a waiter to open a bottle of wine. What you can learn in an hour offline could take you a week on the Web.
Take it slow and enjoy the process. Hedge bets and talk online to lots of different people at the same time then whittle them down. Don't rush off with the first person who comes along, or you'll find yourself answering lots of e-mail and having very few dates.
6. Give Up, Stay Single
And it doesn't just take time to get to know someone new; it also takes a while to find someone you want to build a relationship with.
It's a mistake to expect all your dating problems to end overnight.
The real advantage in online dating is not speed or convenience (although that's certainly a major plus!) but the easy availability of the easy and the available. On the Internet, you should be prepared to meet lots of different people and over a long period of time.
You'll certainly come across lots of duds before you find a live one, but don't judge all the fish by the first ones you hook. Keep casting until you land the kind of catch you can bring home and boast about to your pals.
Finding Your Love on the Internet
by Laura Lond June 17, 2005
Internet matchmaking services seem to be everywhere. Do they work? What kinds of people are using them? Is it realistic to find your life partner this way? My husband and I had met on the Internet, so we are a living proof that Internet romance can be successful. I can honestly say that we are a perfect match. Yet, I am aware that there are disaster stories as well, from all kinds of shocking discoveries when two Internet daters meet in person to pure scams. With the anonymity the Internet offers, it is too easy for dishonesty to find its way into the process.
We are often asked how we succeeded, and whether it was hard to weed out the wrong people and make the right choice. Many are curious about how we handled the long distance relationship and whether it is possible to really get to know someone through letters, e-mails, and phone calls. Many ask why we had turned to the Internet to begin with. Let me try to address all these questions one by one.
Who looks for romance online and why?
I have met people who think that only losers and sex-daters look for partners on the Internet: losers go online because they cannot meet anyone “in the real life,” and sex-daters because it’s a quick way to find someone just for sex and nothing else. While both categories certainly do exist, there is also a third one, and I think it may be the largest: decent men and women who are serious about meeting their special someone and creating a family. The reason they go online is usually because they know exactly what they want in their future life partner, and they do not wish to settle for less. Call them picky; they are. They realize that with the help of the Internet they will have the whole world at their fingertips, so they are simply expanding their search. Many of these people are hard-working professionals who have little time for “regular dating,” which is another reason why they turn to the Internet. Daily e-mailing and chatting does not take that much time and yet allows, if used wisely, to get to know the other person just as well as if you were going out and spending time together.
In our case, we were both picky and busy. My husband lived in a small community where there were not many single women of the kind he would be interested in. I, on the contrary, lived in a huge city, but faced the same problem: somehow, there were not many single men around me who had the qualities I was looking for. I worked full time and overtime, leaving home at 7:00 AM and returning around 9:00 PM. My husband ran his own business and was often on the road, traveling for 3-5 days almost every week. As you see, we did not have much time for going out.
Chose the right dating website
If you consider looking for your future life partner online, make sure you chose the right website. It is usually easy enough to see whether a particular website is for marriage minded people or sex-daters. Look at the people’s profiles, see what they are saying about themselves and the person they desire to meet. Their descriptions and stated priorities will speak for themselves. Of course, there is always a chance of a sex-dater posting an ad at a “serious” website, but usually, the two do not mix.
Another thing I always advise is to chose a website that lets you fill out a detailed profile, not just a brief ad stating your age, height, weight, and hair color. The more you can share about yourself and read about your potential mate, the better. When good profiles are available, you will narrow down your search quickly and easily. You won’t even need to contact certain people to see whether you are compatible, you will read their information and know it right away if they are not someone you would be interested it.
I had joined a dating website that offered a brief questionnaire and a detailed profile; you could start with the first and fill out the second later on. There were some folks there who never did that, they just filled out the questionnaire and never went any further. For me, those were the profiles to disregard automatically. It told me that those people were not serious enough about finding their other half, they did not care to give it the full effort.
Know what you want
When you have found the right website, the next step is, of course, to find the right person. Knowing exactly what you want in your future life partner helps a lot. Hopefully, you already know that. If you are not sure, you might have to sit down and think about it, very hard, before you start looking at the profiles. Here are some helpful questions to ask yourself:
0. What do you value the most in a man/woman? What qualities are you looking for? What type of a personality? Character? Mindset?
0. What about education? Would you prefer a college graduate? Would you only date someone with a college degree?
0. If you have never been married, is it important to you to find someone who has never been married as well? Would you consider someone who has been divorced? How about a widow/widower?
0. How do you feel about children? Do you want any? How many? How soon? Is it okay if your future spouse has children from previous marriage?
0. What about religion? Politics?
0. What about hobbies and sports? Would you like your mate to fully share your interests, or would you like someone whose interests are different than yours so that you both can learn something new?
Which ones of your preferences are a must, and which ones are negotiable?
THE LOVE COPS
by Dean Shanson
As singles meet and match online, cyberdaters all begin with the same problem: initially at least, they know nothing about their virtual partners. In the real world, couples are usually introduced through mutual friends or family members who are then grilled for personal history and references. In the online world, that knowledge has to be gathered directly from the potential date - and those getting-to-know-you e-mails usually form the first phase of most cyber-relationships.
Occasionally however, suspicions are aroused. Lawyers who claim to be in their thirties let slip that they have 20 years' experience. Apparently perfect partners refuse to reveal personal details and say the relationship has to be kept quiet. Attractive women start sounding remarkably like men. Usually, those suspicions are enough to send the relationship straight to the recycle bin, but increasingly, thousands of users are choosing to have their doubts confirmed first with the help of a professional background check.
Linda Alexander is the owner of whoisshe.com and whoishe.com, Internet services that offer personal checks on online lovers. In the three and a half years she has been running the websites, the San Diego attorney says she has checked the identities and records of "thousands" of virtual love-seekers. In fact, she says, in some 60 percent of the cases, her clients' suspicions are proved correct. Marital status and age are among the most popular areas for untruths, and men and women, it seems, are equally prone to exaggeration.
"We find men who say they're 48 years old and they turn out to be 71 and women who say they're 33 years old and turn out to be 47," says Alexander. "It's all over the place."
For $39, Alexander's firm will carry out a basic background check, searching public records to reveal a person's name, date of birth and address history. For $75, the search will also include professional licenses, aliases, bankruptcies and liens, while an additional $45 will reveal details of the subject's criminal record, if one exists.
Citing some of the worst examples, Alexander explains how her firm discovered that a woman with children was dating a registered pedophile, that one client's partner had been arrested for firing a gun into a house, while another was communicating with a woman who was actually serving time in jail for manslaughter.
In each of the cases, the client was aware that something was wrong and wanted their fears confirmed before giving their partners the final push. "In most cases, they're already 'in love'," she explains. "They're just not going to break up until something smacks them in the face and says something's not okay."
In fact, the clients of background services are often not the cyber-daters themselves, but members of their families concerned about their loved ones' welfare. With many senior citizens using the Internet to look for a late love, worried children often ask companies like Alexander's to vet their parents' potential partners. According to Arthur Faram, President of CheckMate, up to a quarter of his clients are the families of online lovers.
For Linda Alexander however, the stories that her investigators turn up also ring a personal note. She started her business in November 1997 after meeting a man in a chatroom who claimed to be a widowed doctor. When a quick check failed to find a death certificate for the man's wife, she became suspicious.
"I asked several times what was going on and he always had an excuse. When I ran a background check, I found that the wife was alive and well and still living at home," she explained.
While Alexander broke off the relationship and chalked one up to experience, Carmen Lynn, President of DateSmart.com, was less lucky. In 1989, she was working for a private investigator, carrying out surveillance work in dark alleys and talking to clients caught in bad relationships. "At the time. I thought, 'How could someone ever get themselves in a situation like this? They must know better, have better judgment, should be able to make reasonable decisions.' Then I met someone, knew him for five weeks and married him five months later."
Lynn's husband turned out to be a con artist who defrauded her of $25,000. Their marriage was annulled after just three months. Six years later, recognizing a need for cyber-daters to date safely, she set up DateSmart.com to allow Internet users to carry out background checks on their online partners.
Like Whoishe.com, DateSmart.com also trawls public records to reveal a potential partner's past history, but rather than offering a complete package of checks, DateSmart.com gears searches to investigate the client's specific suspicions. "DateSmart is more like going to the doctor and saying 'it hurts here'," says Lynn.
Her 80 percent success rate has included a man who dressed up as a woman to fool an entire chatroom as well as the usual collection of wives whose deaths were greatly exaggerated.
According to Lynn, the motives for deception are often difficult to determine but can range from monetary gain to simple kicks. Although there are a number of warning signs that can suggest something isn't quite right about a relationship, the best advice is to trust your instincts: if something feels wrong, it probably is.
While the rates at which background services reveal dishonesty may seem remarkably high, the bad relationships aren't necessarily indicative of cyber-dating as a whole. Arthur Faram only reported a 5 percent turn-up rate, while Linda Alexander points out that background services are usually the last stop for cyber-daters who are already suspicious, but aren't quite ready to split.
"I have to think that many of the times that people contact us, they already have a sense that something isn't right," she explains. "You just have to use the same kind of common sense you would if you met someone in a bar."
As she points out though, love often leaves little room for common sense.
Someone posts a serious article
"These crush videos are produced and promoted by a depravity that is incomprehensible to most of us," said Louis Gedo, an In Defense of Animals representative from the Bronx. "We want to see Capriola prosecuted for animal cruelty to fullest extent of the law. Let his trial be a message to supporters of this sordid practice that their fetish will not be tolerated and they should seek psychological help rather than sick gratification."
and the rely is an article on Bingo Skimming? Unreal
Linzie, i care 'bout u alot but stop obsessing so much about all this getting even, it's not worth it.
6 FATAL MISTAKES OF ONLINE DATING AND HOW TO AVOID THEM!
By Dean Shanson
Dating is never easy. Although online matchmaking cuts out the need for seedy bars and corny chat-up lines, it doesn't remove the cause of every difficulty found in every relationship: the people.
We all make mistakes, and when we look back on our past relationships, it's pretty clear that many of us make them all the time. To help reduce your error rate-and increase your chances of success-we've produced a list of the top eight dating mistakes made by online loveseekers.
1. No Picture, No Chance!
Let's be honest-looks are important. Sure, personality is crucial and character comes first, but if you don't get those butterflies in the belly when you see your partner's face, your relationship's got a shorter life expectancy than a J.Lo marriage.
Profiles with pictures get around ten times more responses than those without, and for good reason: anyone who writes to a cyberdater without knowing what they look like is taking a huge risk. What do you do if the e-mails go without a hitch, the telephone calls last hours, but when you meet face-to-face, you find you've been talking to Quasimodo's twin? It's too early for 'it's not you, it's me' and if everything else has gone well, you've got nothing left to blame but looks.
Upload a picture, and you'll get far more responses to choose from. Pick a partner with a picture, and you can put any future problems down to personality.
Tip: Don't have a good picture? Order a photo session from LookBetterOnline.com today! Click here for more details.
2. High Hopes, Low Rewards
Have you ever noticed how the people who have the most dates always seem to be the people who need them least? They're the happy-go-lucky types, the ones with a joy for living who could find a silver lining in a tornado. There you are, sitting at home alone on Saturday night, dreaming of being on a perfect date, and they're out every night without any effort at all.
It's got nothing to do with looks and everything to do with attitude. Successful daters, online and off, regard dating as a chance to meet new people, not a chance to get laid or pick up a wedding ring. If the date doesn't work, well heck, maybe the date's got friends, and at least they've got a new one.
One of the biggest mistakes you can make while dating online is to expect the next person you meet to be The One.
S/he might be. But you won't know it for a while. Lower your expectations, look on each date as a chance to meet someone new, and you'll find yourself meeting new people all the time.
3. Dull Profile, Dull Partners
Okay, we've already said that picture's are important, but the profile is vital too. There are millions of profiles on dating sites across the web-you want to be sure that your profile is interesting enough to both catch someone's eye and capture their interest.
Bunging on any old description filled with typing mistakes and boring clichés is a big no-no-unless you want someone equally boring to write back.
That means you're going to have put in a bit of effort. When you first register to a dating site, by all means write anything just to get the profile up. But once it's up, sit down with a pal, a bottle of wine, and a big bucket of fun, and have a ball putting together a profile that's witty, exciting and attractive. You'll find that like attracts like.
Tip: Need help with yout profile? Order a Profile Makeover from LookBetterOnline.com today! Click here for more details.
4. The Truth, The Whole Truth, And Nothing Like The Truth…
'Witty and exciting' is not however the same as a complete pack of lies. Just because potential dates are complete strangers is not a good enough reason to stretch the truth.
Fibs are no less a mistake in online dating than they are offline.
Remember, every stranger is just a friend you haven't met, and you wouldn't lie to your friends, would you? Well, you wouldn't want to start a new relationship with a lie, anyway.
Be brave. Put down your real age, your real job, your real hair color. Save the whoppers for the taxman.
5. All Speed, No Substance
While love may come at first sight, it rarely comes with first click. There's very little you can tell about someone from their first e-mail, the first phone conversation, or even the first date.
It's a mistake to think you can move from mouse click to heart click in a matter of days.
Online relationships tend to take longer than those take place offline. The reason should be clear: any e-mail says little more than you can find out in the time it takes for a waiter to open a bottle of wine. What you can learn in an hour offline could take you a week on the Web.
Take it slow and enjoy the process. Hedge bets and talk online to lots of different people at the same time then whittle them down. Don't rush off with the first person who comes along, or you'll find yourself answering lots of e-mail and having very few dates.
6. Give Up, Stay Single
And it doesn't just take time to get to know someone new; it also takes a while to find someone you want to build a relationship with.
It's a mistake to expect all your dating problems to end overnight.
The real advantage in online dating is not speed or convenience (although that's certainly a major plus!) but the easy availability of the easy and the available. On the Internet, you should be prepared to meet lots of different people and over a long period of time.
You'll certainly come across lots of duds before you find a live one, but don't judge all the fish by the first ones you hook. Keep casting until you land the kind of catch you can bring home and boast about to your pals.
myspace.com/iminlovewithajoo
OMG!!
i nearly thought that link said I'm in love with a roo (squished???)
hahaha, joo........geez has the 51 year old howie being trying this shit on 22 year olds?
for shame indeed
the postings in the past week have diminished a lot of good that might have one time come out of this. pretty soon everyone's personal information will be posted, especially after IP are being tracked. IP said it was started in Tahoe and lindsay (linzie's?) website says tahoe, but lindsay still has a crush on the guy "I'm in love with a joo/jew?" I can't believe you still like the man after all this, but honey, he's too old for you. The rest of us gals can find someone better you're young and can too.
geeze is right, WTF is up with this site?
let's set the record straight here, again, while Lindsay is on here trashing Howie she also calls and emails him incessantly, only ending when the emails were blocked. we were together the other day when she left a message begging howie to play a song dedicated to her. Inaccurate again. Too young for Howie to date her? In my opinion, no shit sherlock; too young for Demi Moore? definately, too young for Kevin costner, oh yeah. and all the rest, but, If they were happy then who am I to say, but it is my opinion that it's ridiculously too young. i suppose guys go for that. I'll probably be replaced by a 25 swf.
I do not think it is Lindsay. Sorry Linds, that people are posting about you. It isn't your fault. I think Nanc is trying to pin things on you. Poor Linds is what I have to say. She was 19 or 20 when Howie hit on her and that is wrong. She never had a relationship before and he took advantage of her and that is not right. He is over 50 even though he tells everyone he is 48. She is not in love with him anymore and it is mean to talk about her like this. It was years go and he hit on her!! What 19 year old would not be overwhelmed by that. Give the kid a break!! She is not jealous and she does not want Howie.
Nanc wouldn't answer the age thing but the real story is Howie is 50 or more, not the 48 he tells ladies on dating sites. No biggie? Well, it is still a lie. Add another lie to the list is the point. Nanc continues to defend H and talk for him and that is mentally ill.
Nanc, are you and Howie going to have babies? That is kind of scary given what some kind of suggested he likes here earlier, dont ya think?
Maybe Nanc is really Howie's mother in disguise. She acts like his mother doesn't she? and she is now posting dating articles and that is a mom thing.
Or maybe Nanc is just a control freak. Maybe she is mistress Nanc behind the curtain You know how women who like to sit on men's faces and stomp on animals are??
Or Nanc is that not what you and howie talked about when you met him on match.com? Are goddesses immune from crushing conversations? We would really like to know since we are all jealous females who really want Howie.
See how much Nanc helped Howie out?
Nothing like attacking hurt people and defending an abuser........
Someone told er to shut up and live a quiet life and that is what someone with class and brains would do.
Learn from the stars, learn from the stars. NOT that Howie is a star. He is a wannabe.....
but it is the principle...
mistress nanc is a funneee funneee name; i say we all call her that from now on....that is how she comes across on the blog too....
can you imagine being 18 or 19 and having some old gray haired overweight out of date comic guy stick his tongue in your mouth after he told you likes chubby girls to sit on rats??
how would that affect you?
it is abuse as far as i can tell
cut lindZ some slack!! i am sure after this and your attackes, if she started the blog sure she will stop it
mistress maria catholic schoolgirl mouse crushing maniac
Great Websites For Howie!!
* Smash My Phone
Unforgiving technicians will crush your useless cell phone into small pieces.
www.smashmyphone.com
* Her Cruel Feet
Crushing, trampling, and giantess fetish site featuring photo gallery of females stomping various objects including vegetables, books, cakes, frogs, and lizards.
www.hercruelfeet.com
* Stomping Web Ring
Join up here.
www.webring.org/cgi-bin/webring?ring=stomp;addform
I would LOVE to live a quiet life, but doesn't seem as if you like that; can you READ?? i WROTE that in my opinion "no shit sherlock" "I" think a guy Howie's age is too old to date young girls but that is MY opinion , which apparently happens to agree, sadly with some sick person who calls herself a 'crushing rodent queen " how sick is that? But, YES in my opinion I don't like older guys going out with young girls, but my opinion (even when it agrees with you) you can't seem to read. that's ok I can.
You, last post (10:37) being a "younger girl" and a close and very intimate friend of hers, can explain to have her stop calling/emailing or texting, like "don't click the send button." even her friends think she is obsessed.
mistress maria catholic schoolgirl mouse crushing maniac???
maybe you guys are really SICK SICK SICK SICK, if that how you call yourselves. YOU want to do that? And who is sick here?
Finding Your Love on the Internet
by Laura Lond June 17, 2005
Internet matchmaking services seem to be everywhere. Do they work? What kinds of people are using them? Is it realistic to find your life partner this way? My husband and I had met on the Internet, so we are a living proof that Internet romance can be successful. I can honestly say that we are a perfect match. Yet, I am aware that there are disaster stories as well, from all kinds of shocking discoveries when two Internet daters meet in person to pure scams. With the anonymity the Internet offers, it is too easy for dishonesty to find its way into the process.
We are often asked how we succeeded, and whether it was hard to weed out the wrong people and make the right choice. Many are curious about how we handled the long distance relationship and whether it is possible to really get to know someone through letters, e-mails, and phone calls. Many ask why we had turned to the Internet to begin with. Let me try to address all these questions one by one.
Who looks for romance online and why?
I have met people who think that only losers and sex-daters look for partners on the Internet: losers go online because they cannot meet anyone “in the real life,” and sex-daters because it’s a quick way to find someone just for sex and nothing else. While both categories certainly do exist, there is also a third one, and I think it may be the largest: decent men and women who are serious about meeting their special someone and creating a family. The reason they go online is usually because they know exactly what they want in their future life partner, and they do not wish to settle for less. Call them picky; they are. They realize that with the help of the Internet they will have the whole world at their fingertips, so they are simply expanding their search. Many of these people are hard-working professionals who have little time for “regular dating,” which is another reason why they turn to the Internet. Daily e-mailing and chatting does not take that much time and yet allows, if used wisely, to get to know the other person just as well as if you were going out and spending time together.
In our case, we were both picky and busy. My husband lived in a small community where there were not many single women of the kind he would be interested in. I, on the contrary, lived in a huge city, but faced the same problem: somehow, there were not many single men around me who had the qualities I was looking for. I worked full time and overtime, leaving home at 7:00 AM and returning around 9:00 PM. My husband ran his own business and was often on the road, traveling for 3-5 days almost every week. As you see, we did not have much time for going out.
Chose the right dating website
If you consider looking for your future life partner online, make sure you chose the right website. It is usually easy enough to see whether a particular website is for marriage minded people or sex-daters. Look at the people’s profiles, see what they are saying about themselves and the person they desire to meet. Their descriptions and stated priorities will speak for themselves. Of course, there is always a chance of a sex-dater posting an ad at a “serious” website, but usually, the two do not mix.
Another thing I always advise is to chose a website that lets you fill out a detailed profile, not just a brief ad stating your age, height, weight, and hair color. The more you can share about yourself and read about your potential mate, the better. When good profiles are available, you will narrow down your search quickly and easily. You won’t even need to contact certain people to see whether you are compatible, you will read their information and know it right away if they are not someone you would be interested it.
I had joined a dating website that offered a brief questionnaire and a detailed profile; you could start with the first and fill out the second later on. There were some folks there who never did that, they just filled out the questionnaire and never went any further. For me, those were the profiles to disregard automatically. It told me that those people were not serious enough about finding their other half, they did not care to give it the full effort.
Know what you want
When you have found the right website, the next step is, of course, to find the right person. Knowing exactly what you want in your future life partner helps a lot. Hopefully, you already know that. If you are not sure, you might have to sit down and think about it, very hard, before you start looking at the profiles. Here are some helpful questions to ask yourself:
0. What do you value the most in a man/woman? What qualities are you looking for? What type of a personality? Character? Mindset?
0. What about education? Would you prefer a college graduate? Would you only date someone with a college degree?
0. If you have never been married, is it important to you to find someone who has never been married as well? Would you consider someone who has been divorced? How about a widow/widower?
0. How do you feel about children? Do you want any? How many? How soon? Is it okay if your future spouse has children from previous marriage?
0. What about religion? Politics?
0. What about hobbies and sports? Would you like your mate to fully share your interests, or would you like someone whose interests are different than yours so that you both can learn something new?
Which ones of your preferences are a must, and which ones are negotiable?
Finding Your Love on the Internet
by Laura Lond June 17, 2005
Internet matchmaking services seem to be everywhere. Do they work? What kinds of people are using them? Is it realistic to find your life partner this way? My husband and I had met on the Internet, so we are a living proof that Internet romance can be successful. I can honestly say that we are a perfect match. Yet, I am aware that there are disaster stories as well, from all kinds of shocking discoveries when two Internet daters meet in person to pure scams. With the anonymity the Internet offers, it is too easy for dishonesty to find its way into the process.
We are often asked how we succeeded, and whether it was hard to weed out the wrong people and make the right choice. Many are curious about how we handled the long distance relationship and whether it is possible to really get to know someone through letters, e-mails, and phone calls. Many ask why we had turned to the Internet to begin with. Let me try to address all these questions one by one.
Who looks for romance online and why?
I have met people who think that only losers and sex-daters look for partners on the Internet: losers go online because they cannot meet anyone “in the real life,” and sex-daters because it’s a quick way to find someone just for sex and nothing else. While both categories certainly do exist, there is also a third one, and I think it may be the largest: decent men and women who are serious about meeting their special someone and creating a family. The reason they go online is usually because they know exactly what they want in their future life partner, and they do not wish to settle for less. Call them picky; they are. They realize that with the help of the Internet they will have the whole world at their fingertips, so they are simply expanding their search. Many of these people are hard-working professionals who have little time for “regular dating,” which is another reason why they turn to the Internet. Daily e-mailing and chatting does not take that much time and yet allows, if used wisely, to get to know the other person just as well as if you were going out and spending time together.
In our case, we were both picky and busy. My husband lived in a small community where there were not many single women of the kind he would be interested in. I, on the contrary, lived in a huge city, but faced the same problem: somehow, there were not many single men around me who had the qualities I was looking for. I worked full time and overtime, leaving home at 7:00 AM and returning around 9:00 PM. My husband ran his own business and was often on the road, traveling for 3-5 days almost every week. As you see, we did not have much time for going out.
Chose the right dating website
If you consider looking for your future life partner online, make sure you chose the right website. It is usually easy enough to see whether a particular website is for marriage minded people or sex-daters. Look at the people’s profiles, see what they are saying about themselves and the person they desire to meet. Their descriptions and stated priorities will speak for themselves. Of course, there is always a chance of a sex-dater posting an ad at a “serious” website, but usually, the two do not mix.
Another thing I always advise is to chose a website that lets you fill out a detailed profile, not just a brief ad stating your age, height, weight, and hair color. The more you can share about yourself and read about your potential mate, the better. When good profiles are available, you will narrow down your search quickly and easily. You won’t even need to contact certain people to see whether you are compatible, you will read their information and know it right away if they are not someone you would be interested it.
I had joined a dating website that offered a brief questionnaire and a detailed profile; you could start with the first and fill out the second later on. There were some folks there who never did that, they just filled out the questionnaire and never went any further. For me, those were the profiles to disregard automatically. It told me that those people were not serious enough about finding their other half, they did not care to give it the full effort.
Know what you want
When you have found the right website, the next step is, of course, to find the right person. Knowing exactly what you want in your future life partner helps a lot. Hopefully, you already know that. If you are not sure, you might have to sit down and think about it, very hard, before you start looking at the profiles. Here are some helpful questions to ask yourself:
0. What do you value the most in a man/woman? What qualities are you looking for? What type of a personality? Character? Mindset?
0. What about education? Would you prefer a college graduate? Would you only date someone with a college degree?
0. If you have never been married, is it important to you to find someone who has never been married as well? Would you consider someone who has been divorced? How about a widow/widower?
0. How do you feel about children? Do you want any? How many? How soon? Is it okay if your future spouse has children from previous marriage?
0. What about religion? Politics?
0. What about hobbies and sports? Would you like your mate to fully share your interests, or would you like someone whose interests are different than yours so that you both can learn something new?
Which ones of your preferences are a must, and which ones are negotiable?
it was a JOKE but, it is the affectionate nick name your boyfriend had for me , he wanted me to call myself that not he mistress but the crushing rodent queen part with the catholic part attached,
he wanted to talk about how exciting it was for him to watch me crush rodents either with my shoes or butt. and just cuz i went along does not make me sick. it was his thing. he asked me to pretend i liked it for him cuz it sexually excited him. i mostly didnt say anything i was so shocked
didn't you read the earlier postings how all of us had crushing nicknames. how can you act like you dont know about them
did you think we just made that up
seriously, did you? it isn't so. if you think it is so sick, how can you be with him?
and it is linz's fault is it? howie hit on her!!! you dont have the correct info, you dont. he lies to you. linz is a very nice young girl, she was 19 nanc, do you know how young that is? howie started it. i saw it all!!i am her friend too.......
"catholic mouse crushing maniac" is what howie called me!!!
i never said i wanted to do it. he wanted to talk and i listened...get it? it got him off this this whole thing......
Great Websites For Howie!!
* Smash My Phone
Unforgiving technicians will crush your useless cell phone into small pieces.
www.smashmyphone.com
* Her Cruel Feet
Crushing, trampling, and giantess fetish site featuring photo gallery of females stomping various objects including vegetables, books, cakes, frogs, and lizards.
www.hercruelfeet.com
* Stomping Web Ring
Join up here.
www.webring.org/cgi-bin/webring?ring=stomp;addform
Gosh, whomever is posting the same articles over and over. it is really annoying.
Nanc, are you such a control freak that you can't just leave the blog alone
Just let it go for God's sake. You are starting to lose it and look insane yourself.
TAKE THE HIGH ROAD!! SHUT THE COMPUTER OFF AND GO AWAY!!
yeah, I thought nanc was going to start her own blog. what happened to that idea?
that a 50 year old man, maybe 48 at the time, hit on a 19 year old with this crushing fetish stuff is sick sick sick. and then to post her name on a support site via his new girlfriend is just abusive.
the first post said she flew in to see howie and that has just as much credibility as ip tracker. who knows?
Gosh, whomever is posting the same articles over and over. it is really annoying. Not me
you know folks, you attribute things to me that aren't me, including things about any of you, lindsay included. People are screwing with your heads in an effort to mess with mine, which doesn't really bother me because i know what i put up and what i don't.
Typing is an EASY way to create false things. Don't YOU see , what a JOKE (you are right) this all has become.
nanc, if you had a daughter, say, 19. would you be concerned if a 48 year old man hit on her and chatted to her about having her torture animals for his sexual pleasure. an act that could land the young woman in jail for animal cruelty?
might you not try to warn other people. especially if you had direct evidence yourself and were not relying on heresay.
THAT NANC IS WHAT THE CONVERSATON ON THIS BLOG IS ALL ABOUT!!!!
It is NOT about YOU and your relationship with Howie, past, present or future.
Finding Your Love on the Internet
by Laura Lond June 17, 2005
Internet matchmaking services seem to be everywhere. Do they work? What kinds of people are using them? Is it realistic to find your life partner this way? My husband and I had met on the Internet, so we are a living proof that Internet romance can be successful. I can honestly say that we are a perfect match. Yet, I am aware that there are disaster stories as well, from all kinds of shocking discoveries when two Internet daters meet in person to pure scams. With the anonymity the Internet offers, it is too easy for dishonesty to find its way into the process.
We are often asked how we succeeded, and whether it was hard to weed out the wrong people and make the right choice. Many are curious about how we handled the long distance relationship and whether it is possible to really get to know someone through letters, e-mails, and phone calls. Many ask why we had turned to the Internet to begin with. Let me try to address all these questions one by one.
Who looks for romance online and why?
I have met people who think that only losers and sex-daters look for partners on the Internet: losers go online because they cannot meet anyone “in the real life,” and sex-daters because it’s a quick way to find someone just for sex and nothing else. While both categories certainly do exist, there is also a third one, and I think it may be the largest: decent men and women who are serious about meeting their special someone and creating a family. The reason they go online is usually because they know exactly what they want in their future life partner, and they do not wish to settle for less. Call them picky; they are. They realize that with the help of the Internet they will have the whole world at their fingertips, so they are simply expanding their search. Many of these people are hard-working professionals who have little time for “regular dating,” which is another reason why they turn to the Internet. Daily e-mailing and chatting does not take that much time and yet allows, if used wisely, to get to know the other person just as well as if you were going out and spending time together.
In our case, we were both picky and busy. My husband lived in a small community where there were not many single women of the kind he would be interested in. I, on the contrary, lived in a huge city, but faced the same problem: somehow, there were not many single men around me who had the qualities I was looking for. I worked full time and overtime, leaving home at 7:00 AM and returning around 9:00 PM. My husband ran his own business and was often on the road, traveling for 3-5 days almost every week. As you see, we did not have much time for going out.
Chose the right dating website
If you consider looking for your future life partner online, make sure you chose the right website. It is usually easy enough to see whether a particular website is for marriage minded people or sex-daters. Look at the people’s profiles, see what they are saying about themselves and the person they desire to meet. Their descriptions and stated priorities will speak for themselves. Of course, there is always a chance of a sex-dater posting an ad at a “serious” website, but usually, the two do not mix.
Another thing I always advise is to chose a website that lets you fill out a detailed profile, not just a brief ad stating your age, height, weight, and hair color. The more you can share about yourself and read about your potential mate, the better. When good profiles are available, you will narrow down your search quickly and easily. You won’t even need to contact certain people to see whether you are compatible, you will read their information and know it right away if they are not someone you would be interested it.
I had joined a dating website that offered a brief questionnaire and a detailed profile; you could start with the first and fill out the second later on. There were some folks there who never did that, they just filled out the questionnaire and never went any further. For me, those were the profiles to disregard automatically. It told me that those people were not serious enough about finding their other half, they did not care to give it the full effort.
Know what you want
When you have found the right website, the next step is, of course, to find the right person. Knowing exactly what you want in your future life partner helps a lot. Hopefully, you already know that. If you are not sure, you might have to sit down and think about it, very hard, before you start looking at the profiles. Here are some helpful questions to ask yourself:
0. What do you value the most in a man/woman? What qualities are you looking for? What type of a personality? Character? Mindset?
0. What about education? Would you prefer a college graduate? Would you only date someone with a college degree?
0. If you have never been married, is it important to you to find someone who has never been married as well? Would you consider someone who has been divorced? How about a widow/widower?
0. How do you feel about children? Do you want any? How many? How soon? Is it okay if your future spouse has children from previous marriage?
0. What about religion? Politics?
0. What about hobbies and sports? Would you like your mate to fully share your interests, or would you like someone whose interests are different than yours so that you both can learn something new?
Which ones of your preferences are a must, and which ones are negotiable?
July 24, 2007 10:53 PM
Anonymous said...
Finding Your Love on the Internet
by Laura Lond June 17, 2005
Internet matchmaking services seem to be everywhere. Do they work? What kinds of people are using them? Is it realistic to find your life partner this way? My husband and I had met on the Internet, so we are a living proof that Internet romance can be successful. I can honestly say that we are a perfect match. Yet, I am aware that there are disaster stories as well, from all kinds of shocking discoveries when two Internet daters meet in person to pure scams. With the anonymity the Internet offers, it is too easy for dishonesty to find its way into the process.
We are often asked how we succeeded, and whether it was hard to weed out the wrong people and make the right choice. Many are curious about how we handled the long distance relationship and whether it is possible to really get to know someone through letters, e-mails, and phone calls. Many ask why we had turned to the Internet to begin with. Let me try to address all these questions one by one.
Who looks for romance online and why?
I have met people who think that only losers and sex-daters look for partners on the Internet: losers go online because they cannot meet anyone “in the real life,” and sex-daters because it’s a quick way to find someone just for sex and nothing else. While both categories certainly do exist, there is also a third one, and I think it may be the largest: decent men and women who are serious about meeting their special someone and creating a family. The reason they go online is usually because they know exactly what they want in their future life partner, and they do not wish to settle for less. Call them picky; they are. They realize that with the help of the Internet they will have the whole world at their fingertips, so they are simply expanding their search. Many of these people are hard-working professionals who have little time for “regular dating,” which is another reason why they turn to the Internet. Daily e-mailing and chatting does not take that much time and yet allows, if used wisely, to get to know the other person just as well as if you were going out and spending time together.
In our case, we were both picky and busy. My husband lived in a small community where there were not many single women of the kind he would be interested in. I, on the contrary, lived in a huge city, but faced the same problem: somehow, there were not many single men around me who had the qualities I was looking for. I worked full time and overtime, leaving home at 7:00 AM and returning around 9:00 PM. My husband ran his own business and was often on the road, traveling for 3-5 days almost every week. As you see, we did not have much time for going out.
Chose the right dating website
If you consider looking for your future life partner online, make sure you chose the right website. It is usually easy enough to see whether a particular website is for marriage minded people or sex-daters. Look at the people’s profiles, see what they are saying about themselves and the person they desire to meet. Their descriptions and stated priorities will speak for themselves. Of course, there is always a chance of a sex-dater posting an ad at a “serious” website, but usually, the two do not mix.
Another thing I always advise is to chose a website that lets you fill out a detailed profile, not just a brief ad stating your age, height, weight, and hair color. The more you can share about yourself and read about your potential mate, the better. When good profiles are available, you will narrow down your search quickly and easily. You won’t even need to contact certain people to see whether you are compatible, you will read their information and know it right away if they are not someone you would be interested it.
I had joined a dating website that offered a brief questionnaire and a detailed profile; you could start with the first and fill out the second later on. There were some folks there who never did that, they just filled out the questionnaire and never went any further. For me, those were the profiles to disregard automatically. It told me that those people were not serious enough about finding their other half, they did not care to give it the full effort.
Know what you want
When you have found the right website, the next step is, of course, to find the right person. Knowing exactly what you want in your future life partner helps a lot. Hopefully, you already know that. If you are not sure, you might have to sit down and think about it, very hard, before you start looking at the profiles. Here are some helpful questions to ask yourself:
0. What do you value the most in a man/woman? What qualities are you looking for? What type of a personality? Character? Mindset?
0. What about education? Would you prefer a college graduate? Would you only date someone with a college degree?
0. If you have never been married, is it important to you to find someone who has never been married as well? Would you consider someone who has been divorced? How about a widow/widower?
0. How do you feel about children? Do you want any? How many? How soon? Is it okay if your future spouse has children from previous marriage?
0. What about religion? Politics?
0. What about hobbies and sports? Would you like your mate to fully share your interests, or would you like someone whose interests are different than yours so that you both can learn something new?
Which ones of your preferences are a must, and which ones are negotiable?
PROBLEM WITH ONLINE DATING.
Union Street Grill is the archetypical meeting place for the new Boston working class: the mid-level account executives and java programmers who've replaced the plant foremen and dock managers as the city's economic hoi polloi. The former boiler house's exposed brick, stained maple trim, and flat screen TVs dispense a comfort-food aura on par with any Applebee's although, to its credit, the Grill was here when the word "franchise" still implied the vote.
I press through the swinging doors to the bar with a weird mix of high-school anticipation and "the-fix-is-in" confidence and stand behind the patrons on the stools. In front of me is a shoulder-length brunette set forward on the edge of her seat to reach her beer - slim figure, tight sweater, denim-clad hips - the only one of her demographic at the bar. I order behind her hoping my voice will make her turn, but it does not. The bartender slides my drink across, takes my cash, and I step back.
This is where it will happen; this is where I'll know. I linger for a moment, sipping, wondering, then I tap her shoulder: "Lisa?"
She turns… not exactly like her JPEG, but… better in a different way; remarkable. Certainly remarkable.
And I think, "This is gonna be okay. This is definitely okay."
It's on.
I went on the first of my two career-total Internet dates in winter, 1998. Things were different. Only 30 million savvy Americans were surfing the Web then (versus 165 million today), and not many were doing so for leisure. The Web was bold, its corners less traveled.
I was working as an analyst for one of the market research firms that fueled the "irrational exuberance." I sold a private "thought leadership" newsletter to a single client, the European Union. As a gig, it was mint: 12 pages each month on the trends, customs, and protocols of U.S. Web users. No hard data, just commentary on the issues. The online personals -- or Internet dating -- were an easy target. The story wrote itself before it happened. I could envision the executive summary's closer before I even turned on my PC:
"Americans aren't afraid to enhance their personal lives with technology. An adventuresome and growing community exists. But it likely will be generations before the science fiction of truly virtual romance can be a reality in a visual and material culture."
Internet dating was different then too. The notions of JPEGs and detailed profiles were in their infancy. The service I investigated for the newsletter read like a digitized version of the newspaper classifieds: two brief lines with age, status/race/gender, location, and a seven- or eight-word quote. Scrolling through messages, it took me almost a page to find an F in the gender slot.
In spite of (or perhaps because of) the crude interface, the whole concept invoked a sense of lottery. I was in my mid-twenties. I was on the company dime. I had nothing to lose. Yet even armed with insouciance, I neglected to tell anyone the premise for my project. Peter Steiner's famous cartoon, "On the Internet, nobody knows you're a dog" epitomized the Web-related moral majority.
In her profile, she was 22 -- a transplanted southern belle at a software company in the Metrowest suburbs; she was 5'8" and blond. I was intrigued and optimistic -- imagining a Dixie-land designer taking her shot in Silicon Valley East. We met at a Chili's or Ruby Tuesday's or the like, in a town home to no one I knew.
In reality, she was a super-sized 5'8" and not exactly a designer. She worked the phones and the front door at a start-up after quitting school for her military boyfriend. "It's funny how you end up where you end up," she said. From the time her eyes met mine, they said she realized this was going nowhere. She ordered a lot of food and ate it - and I was happy she did. "Eventually I'll get back to 'Bama," she said, "but I couldn't bear to go back now. I just wouldn't feel right with people." She was gracious when I grabbed the check, and she asked the requisite, "Want me to give you a call?" When I mumbled my excuses her disappointment was not marked with shock -- more like predestination.
I drove back to my office to write the story, feeling shallow and, in a way, perturbed that the moral majority was right; the stereotype held true.
Mack the Knife.
Things have improved. I think. In 2002, Americans spent $300M on Internet dating services according to the Online Publishers Association. Run the math, and that means anywhere between 3 million and 12 million people hung out their emotional shingle last year. Put more bluntly: if you're between 20 and 34 years old, and you don't know anyone with an online personals account - well, you probably don't know your friends. Internet dating is not only condoned, it's the real new, new thing.
An old roommate of mine, Mack, began extolling the virtues of Internet dating last fall. He's a good-looking guy, a securities analyst, a standout Division I athlete back in college. He frequents private parties and charity events. He's also the epitome of alpha male. He likes control; he likes a challenge, and he likes to win. The online personals became his new proving ground.
It didn't take Mack long to build a system of templates to create "personalized" introductory and follow-up letters that he can send to women on an online dating service at a rate of 15-20 an hour . Likewise, he can model the responses that come back by race, religion, location and other criteria to determine who would be an emotional match and who would be an easy lay. He's added a height-weight ratio to counterbalance misleading JPEGs.
He justifies his system. "You're competing with probably a dozen guys for each girl," he told me. "Like anything in business, it's a numbers game. You make a certain number of cold calls, and some percentage of those calls turn into sales. Some smaller percentage of those sales turn into the type of customer you build a lasting relationship with."
For Mack, it's a game to be won or lost. It requires training and strategy. "When I first started, I needed to improve my writing… to be witty and pithy. It was essential for winning the attentions of girls who get dozens of e-mails from other guys. Strangely, it's transferred into my real life. I can bang out a research brief much faster and as a more entertaining read than I could before I started Internet dating."
Back in the fall, Mack implored me, "With your writing skills and your wealth of pop trivia, you'd be a natural. You're single; get in the game."
But something wouldn't let me pull the trigger.
YOU CAN'T MEET GIRLS AT THE SUPERMARKET.
Not too many weeks later, a high school friend called me from New York. He'd met someone. She was perfect. He fired off an e-mail with some pictures; said he met her in the grocery store. I was amazed. The girl was more than kind of cute; she was striking. I wanted to hear more. In my entire dating life I hadn't met anyone in the grocery store. Then his story started to break down; the details didn't gel. He buckled under the questioning, the truth spilling out like trade secrets after the fourth margarita.
"How long have you been into this?" I asked.
"With this girl, or in general?"
"In general."
"I don't know. Maybe six months -- maybe a little longer."
In less than one year, one of my closest friends had met a dozen women via the Web -- live and in person (many for one night only). He'd chatted with double that and never followed through. He had serious ambitions for the girl he was dating now. No one in our crew had any idea, and only at this point was he ready to go public.
Maybe Mack was right. I struggled with my existing impression of Internet dating. I saw pictures or met women my friends were dating. The curiosity finally overwhelmed me. The sense of lottery was still there, as was another feeling that would take me a while to identify…
After New Year's I logged onto a personals service, created a profile, posted a pic, and tossed in the ante for a subscription.
As part of any online profile, you've gotta produce your "goods." Every service demands enough identifying data to present you to a prospect with more than a modicum of accuracy, and if you want some play, you'd better post a JPEG. My goods are as follows:
6'1"/185
Blond hair/blue eyes
32 years old
Hobbies = running, indie music, snowboarding, lots of reading, and darts
I'll never replace Brad Pitt on People's most beautiful list, but I've never been at a loss for female companionship either. I'm not shy. I am more than comfortable stepping up to the plate in the flesh.
WOMEN WEAR THE PANTS ONLINE.
As I benchmarked my goods against the cyber suitors with whom I thought I'd be contending, I came to a realization. Aside from the simple curiosity and the gamble, the feeling that ultimately renewed my interest in Internet dating was of a grander scale: unadulterated romanticism. Because although I look good on the proverbial paper, a given truth remains: with all the women I'd met and the myriad relationships I'd entered and exited during my 20s, I had never found one where the bond could not be broken -- through a flaw of hers, or mine, or us both. Maybe, after five years of refinement and growing cultural acceptance, the Internet was the medium through which I would overcome the inevitable processes of elimination.
When meeting a girl in a bar or at a party, the process starts with the attraction; it ends with the fatal flaw of personality. But the Internet could flip the scenario: unveil the woman who wouldn't drive me crazy, and then make the equation binary -- we'd have an attraction or we wouldn't.
I stepped in tentatively, refusing to post my profile or JPEG publicly. I wanted to hunt, not be hunted -- and more honestly, I couldn't completely release the stigma from the supposedly defunct Web moral majority. I took Mack's assessment of my writing and my interests to heart. I sent out a handful of messages to only the most attractive women on the service. In a few cases I spent the better part of an hour crafting an undeniable proposition. I never doubted my success. I waited for the replies.
One thing hasn't changed since 1998. Women are the market makers in the online personals. Most receive 20 e-mails a day. A lot men will get more reaction from placing paper notes in bottles and heaving them into the sea. Suddenly Mack's mass-mail madness had some merit.
I received one response to my queries… and the ensuing e-mail thread quickly died on the vine. Apparently a digital Don Juan, I was not.
I hit my frustration and boredom levels in short order. Total messages sent: 5 or 6. Total days invested: about 14. I couldn't bring myself to daisy-cutter the database with templates and form letters to women I would never date more than once (if at all) - and even then only numbed by a six-pack. I made no conscious decision to quit; after two weeks, I gradually gave up logging in. The unofficial analysis: Internet dating was improving, but still not ready for primetime; like many other activities, old-fashion ways were still more efficient than the digital ones.
I KEEP TRYING TO GET OUT, BUT THEY PULL ME BACK IN.
What's making the Internet dating industry the Web's real new, new thing is not only the amusement and, arguably, valuable service it provides; it's an uncanny marketing savvy. Months have passed since my hasty disenchantment with Internet dating. It's now summer, and I decide to terminate my service. When I log in to remove any trace of my digital existence, I am greeted by a handful of newly added prospects. The gimmick works…
Her goods:
5'8"/135
Brown hair/green eyes
27 years old
Hobbies = running, music, soccer, darts
The darts snare me. The running and music, although a match, are fairly de rigueur in most hobbies lists online - but a woman who plays darts is original. Her JPEG - tall and rakish, standing in front of a dart board with a sexy blond friend - doesn't hurt her promotional effort. Her personal essay, while not exceedingly clever, is just vague enough to be intriguing.
I almost hit "reply" but I think better of it. I happen to be at my office, with no time to begin a flirt session. Then I think again: A) This girl is not going to respond to my reply, and B) I don't get any money back for the subscription I bought 5 months ago. It's that 1998 feeling of nothing to lose.
I do it: a three- or four-liner, frankly not all that entertaining, challenging her to a dart game. I log off. If she's interested I'll get an e-mail. Nothing turns up for a while, and I forget about it. I go on about my business at the office and preparing for my weekend.
It's Sunday. I have a lady friend in town for the weekend - a real-time example of another relationship that started with some promise and is eroding before my very eyes because of differences of opinion and dwindling attraction. As she showers I sneak downstairs to check my e-mail. Tucked among the spam is an automated response from the online personals service: User #LM75 has sent you a message. I click the link to view it.
Her name is Lisa. Her reply is succinct, playing heavily on our common interest in running. Her last sentence is an invitation to e-mail her at her personal address, one of the subtle ways an online player extends a branch of trust. Later that afternoon I sit down to address her.
WHO IS LISA?
For the next few weeks, we trade messages about three times a day. It starts as small talk, but really it's careful personal investigation. We talk about our collegiate sports experiences; we talk about music; we talk about grad school, which she is nearly finished with, and teaching - the gig that pays her bills. She writes well; she challenges me; she has a strong command of sarcasm. Our similarities begin to surface. Her parents have retired in upstate New York, about 15 miles from where I grew up and where my family still lives. She's moving across town to my neighborhood in Boston. She likes reruns of Miami Vice.
I ask her out. She declines. Too soon. She's still testing me for potential psychoses. I'm not dissuaded; the e-mail banter is enjoyable enough, and frankly I'm not interested in pushing it. Why spoil the sense of romanticism that increases like inebriation -- each exchange another drink in the bloodstream? Anyway, I'm leaving that night to spend the weekend with friends at the beach.
We pick up the thread when I return. The first half of the week is a flurry of barbs, sarcasm and more small talk. We spend one evening trading Top-5 lists until well past midnight. She confides to me some of the weird e-mails she's been getting from other guys replying to her ad, making particular light of a guy who itemizes his house in the Hamptons and his box seats at Fenway. She names him Pravda Boy (after an overrated night club in town).
On Thursday she pulls the reversal:
"So when are you going to ask me out? I'm beginning to think you're playing hard to get…"
"I tried this path once already, remember?" I reply. "Why don't you ask me?"
"I'm bad at making decisions," she answers. "Now you're giving me the first-date jitters already."
I ignore this just to string it along. Over the next several days we debate about the upcoming date. Lisa starts asking more serious questions, whether I have any drug habits or other skeletons to expose. I don't, and I'm back to the beach house for the weekend, so our thread is going on hold. We set Wednesday night as the time for our meeting.
I return home Sunday night to find several messages from my -- my what? What is Lisa in the taxonomy of acquaintances, lovers and the spectrum in between? The first is a multi-page confession of her planned Friday night. She actually had scheduled a date with Pravda Boy; he stood her up. At midnight she was home alone e-mailing me with tales of a traumatic recent breakup and general self loathing. Not long after midnight she e-mails me again to apologize for whining. Immediately after, she writes again to apologize for acting like Mikey in Swingers -- contacting me over and over without response. She gently requests that I agree not to meet anyone else before our date on Wednesday.
From any woman I have dated in the past half decade, this behavior would annoy me or scare me or both, but as I sit at my desk on Sunday night I feel… relieved. I start thinking about things like the convenience of holidays and the proximity of our parents.
I reply to allay her concerns and to give her a ration of shit for considering a date with another guy. We laugh it off. At some point she broaches a topic we have suspiciously avoided: What if we meet and it doesn't work? What happens to this daily chatter that we've both come to rely on?
I'm sure things will work out. In three weeks, I've seen no warning sign. But my mind starts wandering… 5'8"/135, is that big for a girl? I look at the JPEG again. She looks great, but the photo is kind of dark. There has to be a catch. And I have my own problems. In a stupor during the weekend, I burned the skin off my lip on some late-night pizza at the shore. What will it look like by Wednesday? Maybe not good.
On Tuesday I propose canceling. She can go either way.
WILL YOU STILL E-MAIL TOMORROW?
Wednesday morning things are fine. I e-mail, tell her we should go for it; I'll meet her at Union St. at 8:30. I leave my cell number if she has any problems. When she calls in the afternoon to confirm, it's the first time I ever hear her voice. Pressing "end" I contemplate the problems. Maybe she used a phony picture; maybe she can write, but she won't be able to talk. For the first time in seven years I am hoping for something to work out.
Her picture portrayed a very cosmopolitan figure, but the woman in front of me looks innocent, almost girlish. This does not diminish her attractiveness, her enticing physique. We stare at each other for a moment, neither betraying any emotion. What do we do now? Shake hands? Hug? We've known each other for weeks, and it seems longer, but… We shake hands and head upstairs to the dart board.
Our conversation consists of sentence fragments, continuing topics we started during e-mail exchanges long before. The dart board is occupied, so we play pool. We're so competitive during the game we barely speak. She wins. (I'm legitimately shocked; I play a lot of pool...) I order another round of beer, and the dart board frees up.
We pair up with another couple -- teachers -- and Lisa makes effortless conversation with them. The game ends, and again we're alone… and out of nowhere I feel it happen. I hadn't picked up on it during the games, but… somehow I'm blowing this. We aren't making eye contact. I run a test: I offer to get another round and brush her arm as I make for the bar. She recoils as if bitten. When I return, I offer to grab a table, to just sit and chill. She'd rather play more pool. I almost protest, think better of it, and we play.
"I think I've gotta get going," she announces when the game ends. "I'd like to hit a video store to pick something up for class tomorrow."
I really have nothing to say to this. I'm still in disbelief, tongue tied like a rookie.
We're outside her car. She turns to climb in without a good-bye -- her actions rushed.
"Hey," I interrupt her. She stops, turns to face me. We're standing six feet apart.
"Hey what?"
"Well, what do you think?" I already know what she thinks. I've played her part too many times -- but I ask anyway.
She stares blankly. No reply.
"I wish I wasn't this old," I say under my breath barely realizing it slips out.
"Old?" she asks.
"Nothing; I didn't mean what you think... So, do you wanna do this again? Are you just not diggin' me? Doesn't matter either way, but I'd like to know."
"Do what?"
"I dunno, this… go out?"
She pauses. "Why don't you e-mail me tomorrow?"
"Sure. But that's not going to change the question."
"Just e-mail me tomorrow."
I send the e-mail first thing in the morning. The question doesn't change. Toward the end of the day I get her response:
Thanks for the darts and pool last night... As for "not diggin' you," that's not it at all. I think I'm just not ready to start seeing people yet. My boyfriend and I broke up at the end of April after two years together. And we were living together when it ended. It's been tough, and I'm beginning to realize that I need to spend a little time on my own for a while.
Anyway, I definitely enjoyed e-mailing with you. You're an awesome writer... made me laugh a lot. Best of luck.
It's a bull shit send off, spurious, but even before I got her response, I had been taking stock. I've had a long career. I've dated prettier women, had deeper and more complicated relationships. But after this I feel hollow, unfamiliar, as if the world has moved in reverse. And it has. The Internet worked; I just didn't wind up winning.
I try and put this ethereal and ephemeral interaction in its proper context. By real-world terms, it is nothing, but the weeks preceding the meeting distort the magnitude of the event. And there's the sudden lack of honesty that stains her final message. I don't truly feel jilted; it's more… lost opportunity.
I guess if we've learned anything since 1998, we've learned the Internet can do that.
Online dating research at Berkeley
Online dating has shed its stigma as matchmaker for the awkward (Goodwin 1990) to claim a new prominence in the social lives of millions of users. In August 2003 alone, 40 million unique users visited online dating sites in the United States alone, according to U.S. News & World Report -- that's about half the number of single adults in the U.S. Given their prevalence, it seems likely that online dating systems have begun to influence not only individual lives but also cultural notions of love and attraction with their overflowing catalogues of potential partners and their sometimes idiosyncratic choices of personal characteristics to highlight. But despite the incredible number of people using these services, we know little about how users perceive each other and interact through these mediated channels, or how such technologies might affect their selection of partners for dating, sex, and marriage.
Millennia of evolution have left humans with a set of perceptual and interpretive processes that allow us efficiently to identify desirable potential partners -- what happens when we go online and forfeit most of the sensory channels that drive this well-refined offline process? How can we improve the design of online dating systems to help users make better-informed decisions about whom they wish to contact and follow those decisions with effective communication? Moreover, might what we learn about searching and matching in a romantic context generalize to non-romantic situations, like matching potential employees with employers? To answer these questions, we have undertaken a research agenda with an integrative, multi-method approach grounded in social psychological theory and powered by data mining, statistical analysis, and interactive visualization.
Dating Sites 1 to 25 we might like
1. datingdirect.com
Primarily aimed at singles in the UK, Dating Direct has almost a million members and is the biggest personals site in the country. Their regular member parties, held not just in London, are fantastic fun and give you the opportunity to meet loads of nice people in person rather than just online. If you live in the UK I'd highly recommend checking this one out.
2. simplyclicked.com
Simply Clicked.com is a completely free online dating service. There are no catches - simply choose a username and start meeting and chatting to other interesting singles in your area straight away. It really is a breath of fresh air to find a good dating site that isn’t just trying to part you from your money! For this reason I have made Simply Clicked.com the number two dating site in my list.
3. friendfinder.com
Friend Finder is one of the best dating sites you will find. The registration procedure is clear and simple and once you have joined there are lots of interesting profiles to browse through, all with pictures. I quickly found many people I was interested in getting to know and I highly recommend you give it a try. It won't even cost you anything as it's free to join.
4. date.com
Described as "the community with millions of singles", date.com does not disappoint. Once you find someone you are interested in, simply click the "show interest" link and they will be informed of your interest. If they are interested in you then get chatting and see what happens! I also liked the community area featuring dating tips and a whole host of other interesting stuff.
5. matchmaker.com
Matchmaker has been around for a long time and is owned by Lycos so as you would expect it's a very well developed site. I found the registration process was quick and easy and I was soon searching through lots of picture personals in my area. A nice touch is being able to record a voice greeting.
6. singlescrowd.com
Singles Crowd is one of the biggest and best places to visit online. Featuring personalized and compatibility matching, a relationship analyst and also their "Chatterbox" instant messaging, it really is a fun place to check out singles in your area. I've met some lovely people here and I highly recommend you give it a try too.
7. adultfriendfinder.com
If you are looking for something more intimate than just a date then you should check out Adult Friend Finder. Here you will find thousands of like minded adults with sexy photos, seeking affairs, discrete relationships and sexual encounters. Best of all it's free to register so what are you waiting for?
8. matchamerica.com
As the name suggests, Match America caters for single people in the United States. I found it takes a little while to register and "get going" on this site but it was well worth the effort invested once I started browsing all the other great profiles.
9. mingles.com
I was very impressed by this site, it is packed full of features as you would expect of a site that makes it into my top ten. I was especially impressed by the advice section which gave me some great tips on posting a better profile and advice on what to wear for a date.
10. dreammatches.com
Dream Matches is a 100% FREE exclusive dating club for a select group of very hot singles. Anyone can apply to join, but you have to be voted in by a panel of judges, that way only the best looking people can sign up. Once inside there is video chat, instant messaging, online games, new mail alerts, file sharing, the list goes on! And don't forget .... only the hottest people!
11. dreammates.com
There are three communities to choose from at Dreammates, namely "Dating", "Romance" and "Intimate". So whether you are looking to just hang out, for a serious relationship or for an intimate encounter, there will be something to suit you here. As you would expect, the site is very fast to load and a breeze to navigate.
12. dreamdates.com
A very slick and comprehensive site, the sign up procedure was painless and I found there was quite an even ratio of men to women. The "Click2Talk™" instant messenger made chatting to other people very easy to do. I thought that the "featured members" on the homepage was quite a nice touch too.
13. match.com
I first came across Match.com some time ago and it just keeps on getting better. Lots of good quality singles with photos and I loved the fact that you can include up to ten pictures on your profile. Again, its free to register so what do you have to lose?
14. jdate.com
A dating site for the Jewish singles community. This site is not just about dating, it also features advice and details of upcoming events. The dating search facility was very good and the site generally looks very well thought out.
15. foreignrelations.com
A superb site with the emphasis being on meeting Russian, Latin, Asian and European women from around the world. Simply search the ads using any criteria you wish and add any profiles that you like to your basket. When you are finished visit the checkout and pay for the contact details of the ladies that you like.
16. outpersonals.com
If you are looking for a gay partner then look no further than Outpersonals. I had trouble finding a good site catering for same sex match making, I kept getting routed to sites that were basically just trying to peddle porn. Here you will find a large picture personals section and several chat rooms.
17. americansingles.com
I was very impressed by this site catering primarily for single people in America. As well as the usual ability to search or browse profiles, you are able to use instant messaging and real time chat to communicate with other members.
18. blacksingles.com
Specifically catering for people of color, blacksingles.com is an on-line community, not just another dating site. I was quickly able to search through the personal ads and find some good matches, with and without pictures.
19. cyberdating.ca
At this Canadian singles site there is no need to register or login, just search the personals for the person you want. An excellent site which is very easy to use. What a shame I don't live in Canada!
20. annabarmina.com
This must be one of the best sites for meeting women from the former Soviet Union that I have found. A quick search returned almost 10,000 pictures of ladies looking for marriage to European and American men. Don't miss this site if you're looking for a Russian bride!
21. veggiedate.com
Vegetarian? If you don't eat meat then veggiedate.com could help you find a partner with similar tastes. The personals search was quick and easy to use and you could specify as many or as few criteria as you wanted. If I wasn't so fond of hamburgers I'd try my luck finding a date on here.
22. meet-an-inmate.com
Would you like to communicate with female inmates? This site has lots of lonely ladies who are paying a price for their crimes and would like to communicate with people from the outside world. Browse the picture personals and pay $3 for each person you would like to write to. Unusual concept!
23. advanceddegreessingles.com
A matchmaking service for singles with masters degrees and above. A very nice site although I don't qualify as I had trouble even spelling the url! If you're intellectual then this site is for you.
24. lovebrowser.com
Lovebrowser is graphically well designed but did seem to run a little slowly when I visited, especially when trying to perform a search. It was a very simple site to use although it doesn't tell you whether adverts include pictures or not before you click on them.
25. singleswithscruples.com
Very quick and easy to use site. The graphics are excellent without being "over the top" and don't take ages to download. The search is quick and easy and members' profiles are displayed clearly and concisely in a well thought out format.
nanc, if you had a daughter, say, 19. would you be concerned if a 48 year old man hit on her and chatted to her about having her torture animals for his sexual pleasure. an act that could land the young woman in jail for animal cruelty?
might you not try to warn other people. especially if you had direct evidence yourself and were not relying on heresay.
THAT NANC IS WHAT THE CONVERSATON ON THIS BLOG IS ALL ABOUT!!!!
It is NOT about YOU and your relationship with Howie, past, present or future.
Thanks for the article. This 19 year old just might need this one -
22. meet-an-inmate.com
Would you like to communicate with female inmates? This site has lots of lonely ladies who are paying a price for their crimes and would like to communicate with people from the outside world. Browse the picture personals and pay $3 for each person you would like to write to. Unusual concept!
PROBLEM WITH ONLINE DATING.
Union Street Grill is the archetypical meeting place for the new Boston working class: the mid-level account executives and java programmers who've replaced the plant foremen and dock managers as the city's economic hoi polloi. The former boiler house's exposed brick, stained maple trim, and flat screen TVs dispense a comfort-food aura on par with any Applebee's although, to its credit, the Grill was here when the word "franchise" still implied the vote.
I press through the swinging doors to the bar with a weird mix of high-school anticipation and "the-fix-is-in" confidence and stand behind the patrons on the stools. In front of me is a shoulder-length brunette set forward on the edge of her seat to reach her beer - slim figure, tight sweater, denim-clad hips - the only one of her demographic at the bar. I order behind her hoping my voice will make her turn, but it does not. The bartender slides my drink across, takes my cash, and I step back.
This is where it will happen; this is where I'll know. I linger for a moment, sipping, wondering, then I tap her shoulder: "Lisa?"
She turns… not exactly like her JPEG, but… better in a different way; remarkable. Certainly remarkable.
And I think, "This is gonna be okay. This is definitely okay."
It's on.
I went on the first of my two career-total Internet dates in winter, 1998. Things were different. Only 30 million savvy Americans were surfing the Web then (versus 165 million today), and not many were doing so for leisure. The Web was bold, its corners less traveled.
I was working as an analyst for one of the market research firms that fueled the "irrational exuberance." I sold a private "thought leadership" newsletter to a single client, the European Union. As a gig, it was mint: 12 pages each month on the trends, customs, and protocols of U.S. Web users. No hard data, just commentary on the issues. The online personals -- or Internet dating -- were an easy target. The story wrote itself before it happened. I could envision the executive summary's closer before I even turned on my PC:
"Americans aren't afraid to enhance their personal lives with technology. An adventuresome and growing community exists. But it likely will be generations before the science fiction of truly virtual romance can be a reality in a visual and material culture."
Internet dating was different then too. The notions of JPEGs and detailed profiles were in their infancy. The service I investigated for the newsletter read like a digitized version of the newspaper classifieds: two brief lines with age, status/race/gender, location, and a seven- or eight-word quote. Scrolling through messages, it took me almost a page to find an F in the gender slot.
In spite of (or perhaps because of) the crude interface, the whole concept invoked a sense of lottery. I was in my mid-twenties. I was on the company dime. I had nothing to lose. Yet even armed with insouciance, I neglected to tell anyone the premise for my project. Peter Steiner's famous cartoon, "On the Internet, nobody knows you're a dog" epitomized the Web-related moral majority.
In her profile, she was 22 -- a transplanted southern belle at a software company in the Metrowest suburbs; she was 5'8" and blond. I was intrigued and optimistic -- imagining a Dixie-land designer taking her shot in Silicon Valley East. We met at a Chili's or Ruby Tuesday's or the like, in a town home to no one I knew.
In reality, she was a super-sized 5'8" and not exactly a designer. She worked the phones and the front door at a start-up after quitting school for her military boyfriend. "It's funny how you end up where you end up," she said. From the time her eyes met mine, they said she realized this was going nowhere. She ordered a lot of food and ate it - and I was happy she did. "Eventually I'll get back to 'Bama," she said, "but I couldn't bear to go back now. I just wouldn't feel right with people." She was gracious when I grabbed the check, and she asked the requisite, "Want me to give you a call?" When I mumbled my excuses her disappointment was not marked with shock -- more like predestination.
I drove back to my office to write the story, feeling shallow and, in a way, perturbed that the moral majority was right; the stereotype held true.
Mack the Knife.
Things have improved. I think. In 2002, Americans spent $300M on Internet dating services according to the Online Publishers Association. Run the math, and that means anywhere between 3 million and 12 million people hung out their emotional shingle last year. Put more bluntly: if you're between 20 and 34 years old, and you don't know anyone with an online personals account - well, you probably don't know your friends. Internet dating is not only condoned, it's the real new, new thing.
An old roommate of mine, Mack, began extolling the virtues of Internet dating last fall. He's a good-looking guy, a securities analyst, a standout Division I athlete back in college. He frequents private parties and charity events. He's also the epitome of alpha male. He likes control; he likes a challenge, and he likes to win. The online personals became his new proving ground.
It didn't take Mack long to build a system of templates to create "personalized" introductory and follow-up letters that he can send to women on an online dating service at a rate of 15-20 an hour . Likewise, he can model the responses that come back by race, religion, location and other criteria to determine who would be an emotional match and who would be an easy lay. He's added a height-weight ratio to counterbalance misleading JPEGs.
He justifies his system. "You're competing with probably a dozen guys for each girl," he told me. "Like anything in business, it's a numbers game. You make a certain number of cold calls, and some percentage of those calls turn into sales. Some smaller percentage of those sales turn into the type of customer you build a lasting relationship with."
For Mack, it's a game to be won or lost. It requires training and strategy. "When I first started, I needed to improve my writing… to be witty and pithy. It was essential for winning the attentions of girls who get dozens of e-mails from other guys. Strangely, it's transferred into my real life. I can bang out a research brief much faster and as a more entertaining read than I could before I started Internet dating."
Back in the fall, Mack implored me, "With your writing skills and your wealth of pop trivia, you'd be a natural. You're single; get in the game."
But something wouldn't let me pull the trigger.
YOU CAN'T MEET GIRLS AT THE SUPERMARKET.
Not too many weeks later, a high school friend called me from New York. He'd met someone. She was perfect. He fired off an e-mail with some pictures; said he met her in the grocery store. I was amazed. The girl was more than kind of cute; she was striking. I wanted to hear more. In my entire dating life I hadn't met anyone in the grocery store. Then his story started to break down; the details didn't gel. He buckled under the questioning, the truth spilling out like trade secrets after the fourth margarita.
"How long have you been into this?" I asked.
"With this girl, or in general?"
"In general."
"I don't know. Maybe six months -- maybe a little longer."
In less than one year, one of my closest friends had met a dozen women via the Web -- live and in person (many for one night only). He'd chatted with double that and never followed through. He had serious ambitions for the girl he was dating now. No one in our crew had any idea, and only at this point was he ready to go public.
Maybe Mack was right. I struggled with my existing impression of Internet dating. I saw pictures or met women my friends were dating. The curiosity finally overwhelmed me. The sense of lottery was still there, as was another feeling that would take me a while to identify…
After New Year's I logged onto a personals service, created a profile, posted a pic, and tossed in the ante for a subscription.
As part of any online profile, you've gotta produce your "goods." Every service demands enough identifying data to present you to a prospect with more than a modicum of accuracy, and if you want some play, you'd better post a JPEG. My goods are as follows:
6'1"/185
Blond hair/blue eyes
32 years old
Hobbies = running, indie music, snowboarding, lots of reading, and darts
I'll never replace Brad Pitt on People's most beautiful list, but I've never been at a loss for female companionship either. I'm not shy. I am more than comfortable stepping up to the plate in the flesh.
WOMEN WEAR THE PANTS ONLINE.
As I benchmarked my goods against the cyber suitors with whom I thought I'd be contending, I came to a realization. Aside from the simple curiosity and the gamble, the feeling that ultimately renewed my interest in Internet dating was of a grander scale: unadulterated romanticism. Because although I look good on the proverbial paper, a given truth remains: with all the women I'd met and the myriad relationships I'd entered and exited during my 20s, I had never found one where the bond could not be broken -- through a flaw of hers, or mine, or us both. Maybe, after five years of refinement and growing cultural acceptance, the Internet was the medium through which I would overcome the inevitable processes of elimination.
When meeting a girl in a bar or at a party, the process starts with the attraction; it ends with the fatal flaw of personality. But the Internet could flip the scenario: unveil the woman who wouldn't drive me crazy, and then make the equation binary -- we'd have an attraction or we wouldn't.
I stepped in tentatively, refusing to post my profile or JPEG publicly. I wanted to hunt, not be hunted -- and more honestly, I couldn't completely release the stigma from the supposedly defunct Web moral majority. I took Mack's assessment of my writing and my interests to heart. I sent out a handful of messages to only the most attractive women on the service. In a few cases I spent the better part of an hour crafting an undeniable proposition. I never doubted my success. I waited for the replies.
One thing hasn't changed since 1998. Women are the market makers in the online personals. Most receive 20 e-mails a day. A lot men will get more reaction from placing paper notes in bottles and heaving them into the sea. Suddenly Mack's mass-mail madness had some merit.
I received one response to my queries… and the ensuing e-mail thread quickly died on the vine. Apparently a digital Don Juan, I was not.
I hit my frustration and boredom levels in short order. Total messages sent: 5 or 6. Total days invested: about 14. I couldn't bring myself to daisy-cutter the database with templates and form letters to women I would never date more than once (if at all) - and even then only numbed by a six-pack. I made no conscious decision to quit; after two weeks, I gradually gave up logging in. The unofficial analysis: Internet dating was improving, but still not ready for primetime; like many other activities, old-fashion ways were still more efficient than the digital ones.
I KEEP TRYING TO GET OUT, BUT THEY PULL ME BACK IN.
What's making the Internet dating industry the Web's real new, new thing is not only the amusement and, arguably, valuable service it provides; it's an uncanny marketing savvy. Months have passed since my hasty disenchantment with Internet dating. It's now summer, and I decide to terminate my service. When I log in to remove any trace of my digital existence, I am greeted by a handful of newly added prospects. The gimmick works…
Her goods:
5'8"/135
Brown hair/green eyes
27 years old
Hobbies = running, music, soccer, darts
The darts snare me. The running and music, although a match, are fairly de rigueur in most hobbies lists online - but a woman who plays darts is original. Her JPEG - tall and rakish, standing in front of a dart board with a sexy blond friend - doesn't hurt her promotional effort. Her personal essay, while not exceedingly clever, is just vague enough to be intriguing.
I almost hit "reply" but I think better of it. I happen to be at my office, with no time to begin a flirt session. Then I think again: A) This girl is not going to respond to my reply, and B) I don't get any money back for the subscription I bought 5 months ago. It's that 1998 feeling of nothing to lose.
I do it: a three- or four-liner, frankly not all that entertaining, challenging her to a dart game. I log off. If she's interested I'll get an e-mail. Nothing turns up for a while, and I forget about it. I go on about my business at the office and preparing for my weekend.
It's Sunday. I have a lady friend in town for the weekend - a real-time example of another relationship that started with some promise and is eroding before my very eyes because of differences of opinion and dwindling attraction. As she showers I sneak downstairs to check my e-mail. Tucked among the spam is an automated response from the online personals service: User #LM75 has sent you a message. I click the link to view it.
Her name is Lisa. Her reply is succinct, playing heavily on our common interest in running. Her last sentence is an invitation to e-mail her at her personal address, one of the subtle ways an online player extends a branch of trust. Later that afternoon I sit down to address her.
WHO IS LISA?
For the next few weeks, we trade messages about three times a day. It starts as small talk, but really it's careful personal investigation. We talk about our collegiate sports experiences; we talk about music; we talk about grad school, which she is nearly finished with, and teaching - the gig that pays her bills. She writes well; she challenges me; she has a strong command of sarcasm. Our similarities begin to surface. Her parents have retired in upstate New York, about 15 miles from where I grew up and where my family still lives. She's moving across town to my neighborhood in Boston. She likes reruns of Miami Vice.
I ask her out. She declines. Too soon. She's still testing me for potential psychoses. I'm not dissuaded; the e-mail banter is enjoyable enough, and frankly I'm not interested in pushing it. Why spoil the sense of romanticism that increases like inebriation -- each exchange another drink in the bloodstream? Anyway, I'm leaving that night to spend the weekend with friends at the beach.
We pick up the thread when I return. The first half of the week is a flurry of barbs, sarcasm and more small talk. We spend one evening trading Top-5 lists until well past midnight. She confides to me some of the weird e-mails she's been getting from other guys replying to her ad, making particular light of a guy who itemizes his house in the Hamptons and his box seats at Fenway. She names him Pravda Boy (after an overrated night club in town).
On Thursday she pulls the reversal:
"So when are you going to ask me out? I'm beginning to think you're playing hard to get…"
"I tried this path once already, remember?" I reply. "Why don't you ask me?"
"I'm bad at making decisions," she answers. "Now you're giving me the first-date jitters already."
I ignore this just to string it along. Over the next several days we debate about the upcoming date. Lisa starts asking more serious questions, whether I have any drug habits or other skeletons to expose. I don't, and I'm back to the beach house for the weekend, so our thread is going on hold. We set Wednesday night as the time for our meeting.
I return home Sunday night to find several messages from my -- my what? What is Lisa in the taxonomy of acquaintances, lovers and the spectrum in between? The first is a multi-page confession of her planned Friday night. She actually had scheduled a date with Pravda Boy; he stood her up. At midnight she was home alone e-mailing me with tales of a traumatic recent breakup and general self loathing. Not long after midnight she e-mails me again to apologize for whining. Immediately after, she writes again to apologize for acting like Mikey in Swingers -- contacting me over and over without response. She gently requests that I agree not to meet anyone else before our date on Wednesday.
From any woman I have dated in the past half decade, this behavior would annoy me or scare me or both, but as I sit at my desk on Sunday night I feel… relieved. I start thinking about things like the convenience of holidays and the proximity of our parents.
I reply to allay her concerns and to give her a ration of shit for considering a date with another guy. We laugh it off. At some point she broaches a topic we have suspiciously avoided: What if we meet and it doesn't work? What happens to this daily chatter that we've both come to rely on?
I'm sure things will work out. In three weeks, I've seen no warning sign. But my mind starts wandering… 5'8"/135, is that big for a girl? I look at the JPEG again. She looks great, but the photo is kind of dark. There has to be a catch. And I have my own problems. In a stupor during the weekend, I burned the skin off my lip on some late-night pizza at the shore. What will it look like by Wednesday? Maybe not good.
On Tuesday I propose canceling. She can go either way.
WILL YOU STILL E-MAIL TOMORROW?
Wednesday morning things are fine. I e-mail, tell her we should go for it; I'll meet her at Union St. at 8:30. I leave my cell number if she has any problems. When she calls in the afternoon to confirm, it's the first time I ever hear her voice. Pressing "end" I contemplate the problems. Maybe she used a phony picture; maybe she can write, but she won't be able to talk. For the first time in seven years I am hoping for something to work out.
Her picture portrayed a very cosmopolitan figure, but the woman in front of me looks innocent, almost girlish. This does not diminish her attractiveness, her enticing physique. We stare at each other for a moment, neither betraying any emotion. What do we do now? Shake hands? Hug? We've known each other for weeks, and it seems longer, but… We shake hands and head upstairs to the dart board.
Our conversation consists of sentence fragments, continuing topics we started during e-mail exchanges long before. The dart board is occupied, so we play pool. We're so competitive during the game we barely speak. She wins. (I'm legitimately shocked; I play a lot of pool...) I order another round of beer, and the dart board frees up.
We pair up with another couple -- teachers -- and Lisa makes effortless conversation with them. The game ends, and again we're alone… and out of nowhere I feel it happen. I hadn't picked up on it during the games, but… somehow I'm blowing this. We aren't making eye contact. I run a test: I offer to get another round and brush her arm as I make for the bar. She recoils as if bitten. When I return, I offer to grab a table, to just sit and chill. She'd rather play more pool. I almost protest, think better of it, and we play.
"I think I've gotta get going," she announces when the game ends. "I'd like to hit a video store to pick something up for class tomorrow."
I really have nothing to say to this. I'm still in disbelief, tongue tied like a rookie.
We're outside her car. She turns to climb in without a good-bye -- her actions rushed.
"Hey," I interrupt her. She stops, turns to face me. We're standing six feet apart.
"Hey what?"
"Well, what do you think?" I already know what she thinks. I've played her part too many times -- but I ask anyway.
She stares blankly. No reply.
"I wish I wasn't this old," I say under my breath barely realizing it slips out.
"Old?" she asks.
"Nothing; I didn't mean what you think... So, do you wanna do this again? Are you just not diggin' me? Doesn't matter either way, but I'd like to know."
"Do what?"
"I dunno, this… go out?"
She pauses. "Why don't you e-mail me tomorrow?"
"Sure. But that's not going to change the question."
"Just e-mail me tomorrow."
I send the e-mail first thing in the morning. The question doesn't change. Toward the end of the day I get her response:
Thanks for the darts and pool last night... As for "not diggin' you," that's not it at all. I think I'm just not ready to start seeing people yet. My boyfriend and I broke up at the end of April after two years together. And we were living together when it ended. It's been tough, and I'm beginning to realize that I need to spend a little time on my own for a while.
Anyway, I definitely enjoyed e-mailing with you. You're an awesome writer... made me laugh a lot. Best of luck.
It's a bull shit send off, spurious, but even before I got her response, I had been taking stock. I've had a long career. I've dated prettier women, had deeper and more complicated relationships. But after this I feel hollow, unfamiliar, as if the world has moved in reverse. And it has. The Internet worked; I just didn't wind up winning.
I try and put this ethereal and ephemeral interaction in its proper context. By real-world terms, it is nothing, but the weeks preceding the meeting distort the magnitude of the event. And there's the sudden lack of honesty that stains her final message. I don't truly feel jilted; it's more… lost opportunity.
I guess if we've learned anything since 1998, we've learned the Internet can do that.
July 25, 2007 12:01 AM
Anonymous said...
Online dating research at Berkeley
Online dating has shed its stigma as matchmaker for the awkward (Goodwin 1990) to claim a new prominence in the social lives of millions of users. In August 2003 alone, 40 million unique users visited online dating sites in the United States alone, according to U.S. News & World Report -- that's about half the number of single adults in the U.S. Given their prevalence, it seems likely that online dating systems have begun to influence not only individual lives but also cultural notions of love and attraction with their overflowing catalogues of potential partners and their sometimes idiosyncratic choices of personal characteristics to highlight. But despite the incredible number of people using these services, we know little about how users perceive each other and interact through these mediated channels, or how such technologies might affect their selection of partners for dating, sex, and marriage.
Millennia of evolution have left humans with a set of perceptual and interpretive processes that allow us efficiently to identify desirable potential partners -- what happens when we go online and forfeit most of the sensory channels that drive this well-refined offline process? How can we improve the design of online dating systems to help users make better-informed decisions about whom they wish to contact and follow those decisions with effective communication? Moreover, might what we learn about searching and matching in a romantic context generalize to non-romantic situations, like matching potential employees with employers? To answer these questions, we have undertaken a research agenda with an integrative, multi-method approach grounded in social psychological theory and powered by data mining, statistical analysis, and interactive visualization.
July 25, 2007 12:03 AM
Anonymous said...
Dating Sites 1 to 25 we might like
1. datingdirect.com
Primarily aimed at singles in the UK, Dating Direct has almost a million members and is the biggest personals site in the country. Their regular member parties, held not just in London, are fantastic fun and give you the opportunity to meet loads of nice people in person rather than just online. If you live in the UK I'd highly recommend checking this one out.
2. simplyclicked.com
Simply Clicked.com is a completely free online dating service. There are no catches - simply choose a username and start meeting and chatting to other interesting singles in your area straight away. It really is a breath of fresh air to find a good dating site that isn’t just trying to part you from your money! For this reason I have made Simply Clicked.com the number two dating site in my list.
3. friendfinder.com
Friend Finder is one of the best dating sites you will find. The registration procedure is clear and simple and once you have joined there are lots of interesting profiles to browse through, all with pictures. I quickly found many people I was interested in getting to know and I highly recommend you give it a try. It won't even cost you anything as it's free to join.
4. date.com
Described as "the community with millions of singles", date.com does not disappoint. Once you find someone you are interested in, simply click the "show interest" link and they will be informed of your interest. If they are interested in you then get chatting and see what happens! I also liked the community area featuring dating tips and a whole host of other interesting stuff.
5. matchmaker.com
Matchmaker has been around for a long time and is owned by Lycos so as you would expect it's a very well developed site. I found the registration process was quick and easy and I was soon searching through lots of picture personals in my area. A nice touch is being able to record a voice greeting.
6. singlescrowd.com
Singles Crowd is one of the biggest and best places to visit online. Featuring personalized and compatibility matching, a relationship analyst and also their "Chatterbox" instant messaging, it really is a fun place to check out singles in your area. I've met some lovely people here and I highly recommend you give it a try too.
7. adultfriendfinder.com
If you are looking for something more intimate than just a date then you should check out Adult Friend Finder. Here you will find thousands of like minded adults with sexy photos, seeking affairs, discrete relationships and sexual encounters. Best of all it's free to register so what are you waiting for?
8. matchamerica.com
As the name suggests, Match America caters for single people in the United States. I found it takes a little while to register and "get going" on this site but it was well worth the effort invested once I started browsing all the other great profiles.
9. mingles.com
I was very impressed by this site, it is packed full of features as you would expect of a site that makes it into my top ten. I was especially impressed by the advice section which gave me some great tips on posting a better profile and advice on what to wear for a date.
10. dreammatches.com
Dream Matches is a 100% FREE exclusive dating club for a select group of very hot singles. Anyone can apply to join, but you have to be voted in by a panel of judges, that way only the best looking people can sign up. Once inside there is video chat, instant messaging, online games, new mail alerts, file sharing, the list goes on! And don't forget .... only the hottest people!
11. dreammates.com
There are three communities to choose from at Dreammates, namely "Dating", "Romance" and "Intimate". So whether you are looking to just hang out, for a serious relationship or for an intimate encounter, there will be something to suit you here. As you would expect, the site is very fast to load and a breeze to navigate.
12. dreamdates.com
A very slick and comprehensive site, the sign up procedure was painless and I found there was quite an even ratio of men to women. The "Click2Talk™" instant messenger made chatting to other people very easy to do. I thought that the "featured members" on the homepage was quite a nice touch too.
13. match.com
I first came across Match.com some time ago and it just keeps on getting better. Lots of good quality singles with photos and I loved the fact that you can include up to ten pictures on your profile. Again, its free to register so what do you have to lose?
14. jdate.com
A dating site for the Jewish singles community. This site is not just about dating, it also features advice and details of upcoming events. The dating search facility was very good and the site generally looks very well thought out.
15. foreignrelations.com
A superb site with the emphasis being on meeting Russian, Latin, Asian and European women from around the world. Simply search the ads using any criteria you wish and add any profiles that you like to your basket. When you are finished visit the checkout and pay for the contact details of the ladies that you like.
16. outpersonals.com
If you are looking for a gay partner then look no further than Outpersonals. I had trouble finding a good site catering for same sex match making, I kept getting routed to sites that were basically just trying to peddle porn. Here you will find a large picture personals section and several chat rooms.
17. americansingles.com
I was very impressed by this site catering primarily for single people in America. As well as the usual ability to search or browse profiles, you are able to use instant messaging and real time chat to communicate with other members.
18. blacksingles.com
Specifically catering for people of color, blacksingles.com is an on-line community, not just another dating site. I was quickly able to search through the personal ads and find some good matches, with and without pictures.
19. cyberdating.ca
At this Canadian singles site there is no need to register or login, just search the personals for the person you want. An excellent site which is very easy to use. What a shame I don't live in Canada!
20. annabarmina.com
This must be one of the best sites for meeting women from the former Soviet Union that I have found. A quick search returned almost 10,000 pictures of ladies looking for marriage to European and American men. Don't miss this site if you're looking for a Russian bride!
21. veggiedate.com
Vegetarian? If you don't eat meat then veggiedate.com could help you find a partner with similar tastes. The personals search was quick and easy to use and you could specify as many or as few criteria as you wanted. If I wasn't so fond of hamburgers I'd try my luck finding a date on here.
22. meet-an-inmate.com
Would you like to communicate with female inmates? This site has lots of lonely ladies who are paying a price for their crimes and would like to communicate with people from the outside world. Browse the picture personals and pay $3 for each person you would like to write to. Unusual concept!
23. advanceddegreessingles.com
A matchmaking service for singles with masters degrees and above. A very nice site although I don't qualify as I had trouble even spelling the url! If you're intellectual then this site is for you.
24. lovebrowser.com
Lovebrowser is graphically well designed but did seem to run a little slowly when I visited, especially when trying to perform a search. It was a very simple site to use although it doesn't tell you whether adverts include pictures or not before you click on them.
25. singleswithscruples.com
Very quick and easy to use site. The graphics are excellent without being "over the top" and don't take ages to download. The search is quick and easy and members' profiles are displayed clearly and concisely in a well thought out format.
don't forget gaysingleonline.com !
Gay Dating Site Reviews
Enter the matrix of web sites offering online personals as an alternative way to make new connections. There are loads of gay dating services that frankly leave straight sites looking rather shabby by comparison. Most are filled with lots of extra features and a real spirit of community. Browse the listings in your area and you might find a new best friend or an engaging muse to pass some time with. Visit our gay dating section and see the best of the best in virtual hook-ups.
score | name | date | price/period
Gay.com
Overall Score: 90/100
Price/Period: $9.95 / 7 day(s)
Reviewed on: 3/21/2005
Site Summary:
Gay is for men, women and transsexuals looking to find the right match. The site is a portal of significant depth, offering articles, chat, yellow pages and a store. Strong planning landed perfect marks for presentation, but does it really deliver? Find out by reading our review of Gay.com.
Visit Gay.com
Man2Man Personals
Overall Score: 73/100
Price/Period: $14.95 / 30 day(s)
Reviewed on: 5/20/2005
Site Summary:
As the site name suggests, Man2Man Personals is all about gender. This site suffers from a bad case of amateur appeal and lack of gents sitting around the bar for a digital drink. Read this review to see what we really think.
Visit Man2Man Personals
Gay Friend Finder
Overall Score: 72/100
Price/Period: $22.94 / 30 day(s)
Reviewed on: 1/3/2006
Site Summary:
Gay Friend Finder comes from a huge company, but does it deliver all of the trimmings you’d expect from a gay dating site? Read on for an insiders look!
Visit Gay Friend Finder
G Kiss
Overall Score: 50/100
Price/Period: $29.95 / 30 day(s)
Reviewed on: 11/23/2006
Site Summary:
GKiss has slick presentation without a mass-produced aura as one finds on other big network sites. Profiles are screened individually for quality. Premium members can contact non-paying guests. Its greatest weakness, besides limited traffic, is an overly wide local-search radius. Read our review of GKiss.com for further details.
Visit G Kiss
Out Personals
Overall Score: 46/100
Price/Period: $33.96 / 90 day(s)
Reviewed on: 4/8/2005
Site Summary:
Out Personals targets gay men looking to make the right connection online. High marks are given to the depth that this site brings, building a dating site into a full-fledged online community. Read to see how Out Personals scored!
Visit Out Personals
Gay Cupid
Overall Score: 43/100
Price/Period: $29.99 / 30 day(s)
Reviewed on: 11/17/2006
Site Summary:
GayCupid feels as if it was pressed out of web personals factory somewhere. Despite some inattention to detail, profiles are screened prior to posting. However, searches only cover broad regions. Although premium members can include direct contact info, only paying subscribers can read their messages. Read more details in our review of GayCupid.com.
Visit Gay Cupid
I Need a Man 911
Overall Score: 34/100
Price/Period: $0 / day(s)
Reviewed on: 7/10/2007
Site Summary:
I Need A Man 911 is a gay dating site with a bend towards casual encounters, rather than flowery romance. Little access is given to free members, although you can send five free emails per day. Advanced search options, live chat rooms and instant messaging are reserved for premium subscribers. Read more details in our full-review of INeedAMan911.com.
nanc, if you had a daughter, say, 19. would you be concerned if a 48 year old man hit on her and chatted to her about having her torture animals for his sexual pleasure. an act that could land the young woman in jail for animal cruelty?
might you not try to warn other people. especially if you had direct evidence yourself and were not relying on heresay.
THAT NANC IS WHAT THE CONVERSATON ON THIS BLOG IS ALL ABOUT!!!!
It is NOT about YOU and your relationship with Howie, past, present or future.
all the long articles don't take away what a user and manipulator Howie is. leopards do NOT change their spots even if they meet a leopardess.
your words nanc/howie,--mission accomplished, you have succeeded in shutting up everyone else but yourself. your writings are boring self-centered dribble drabble. yawn!
pretending you don't know about the crushing is ridiculous. blaming Lindz is another.
why not blame the abuser for once.
saying you didn't post the long stuff. bs! it is your way of dominating the blog. you decided you were going to end it once and for all and that is obvious
you want us to believe you live some normal quaint quiet little life with babies on the way ? I dont think so!! what a scary thought for the rest of us
the blog wasn't a joke until you started posting. you tried to say it was only a place where some of us just wanted to trash but that was not true for everyone. some just wanted to make sense of what happened to them... maybe even linz included.....
again imagine being 19 and having some old man (50 is OLD to a 19 year old) tell you are beautiful when no one has ever told you that and u have had a rough childhood, and someone pays attention to you. this is abuse. so what if she got attached to him. poor thing!! it is his fault in my opinion as he started it. you dont mess with someone that age no matter what
back to this discussion which i agree is sick. STOP trying to interfere with the real issues here! STOP IT. It isn't funny at all. It is terribly obnoxious when there are some serious issues here to discuss. get over yourself
back to the conversation and poor linz (stop blaming the victim!!)
Anonymous said...
nanc, if you had a daughter, say, 19. would you be concerned if a 48 year old man hit on her and chatted to her about having her torture animals for his sexual pleasure. an act that could land the young woman in jail for animal cruelty?
might you not try to warn other people. especially if you had direct evidence yourself and were not relying on heresay.
THAT NANC IS WHAT THE CONVERSATON ON THIS BLOG IS ALL ABOUT!!!!
It is NOT about YOU and your relationship with Howie, past, present or future.
I am pretty sure I know who is posting the articles over and over and if they don't stop, I will report their IP address to google and to their ISP provider.
PLEASE STOP.
Woman's persistence pays off: Lyme disease finally diagnosed - another article of interest
what are the rules for posting? oh right, I know, only hateful things one-side about a guy you hardly knew. And of course, ANYTHING horrible about me. and articles that are of your own choosing. yes, "C", PLEASE DO call google and let them know you are using your job to get IP addresses and then let us all know who they belong to. You can't control all the information, you can not blame someone else for all your anger.
WTF , huh... ?
ever wonder what it feels like to be back in High School ? just read and it brings back memories doesn't it girls?
OMG you're all nuts - women !
what do you know anyway
yes, what are the rules for posting?
yes, what are the rules for posting?
rules ? Why don't you answer the question?
is there
a limit to the number of posts you can make?
a limit to the number of articles that can be posted?
a limit to the number of lies that can be told?
a limit to the number of vulgar names that one person can be labeled?
a limit to the number of accusations?
a limit to the number of two-faced behaviors?
a limit to the hypocricy?
just what are the rules now that we're going to impose some? answer please?
All the article posts are from Howie's IP address, or most of them. The ones on dating are. Also the last few posts are from his address as well.
In the past day 95% of the posts were from South Lake Tahoe, there were a few from other parts of California and Nevada and only two or three from other states.
But the majority are coming from Howie's/Nanc's IP address.
By the way, there are TOS rules that do apply to blogs and some of them are being broken here. I'll continue to monitor the situation and I wiil report the IP addresses of those who aren't complying. Flooding a blog with an onslaught of unrelated articles is against the TOS rules.
Are these the only rules? or TOS (Terms of service?)
Blogger is a free service for communication, self-expression and freedom of speech. We believe Blogger increases the availability of information, encourages healthy debate, and makes possible new connections between people.
We respect our users' ownership of and responsibility for the content they choose to share. It is our belief that censoring this content is contrary to a service that bases itself on freedom of expression.
In order to uphold these values, we need to curb abuses that threaten our ability to provide this service and the freedom of expression it encourages. As a result, there are some boundaries on the type of content that can be hosted with Blogger. The boundaries we've defined are those that both comply with legal requirements and that serve to enhance the service as a whole.
Content Boundaries
Illegal Purposes. Blogger may not be used for illegal purposes. Examples of this include using Blogger for fraudulent purposes or operating a phishing site (used to obtain account and password information).
Spam. We will aggressively seek to remove spam from our site. There are a variety of different ways in which spam manifests itself in blogs. Generally, when we talk about spam we mean content that is created for the primary purpose of manipulating search engine results, or generating revenue or traffic through deceptive means. The following are examples of the types of spam that are forbidden by the Blogger Content Policy ("Content Policy"), but this is not an exhaustive list.
comment spam: the manual or automated placement of comments on a post for the sole purpose of driving either traffic or Google PageRank to another site. Note that Blogger uses the rel="nofollow" attribute on links in comments to negate the effect of comment spam />
referrer spamming: send fake referrer traffic (links) to a site for the purpose of driving traffic to a Blog*Spot-hosted blog
cloaking: the programmatic hiding of content on a site for the purposes of having that content indexed by search engines without it being viewable
automated content creation: the scripted creation of blog content for the purpose of generating revenue or manipulating search results
More information about the specific measures we are taking against spam can be found in Blogger Help.
Identity Theft and Privacy. Blogs that misleadingly appropriate the identity of another person are not permitted.
Users may not post other people's personally identifying or confidential information, including but not limited to credit card numbers, Social Security Numbers, and driver's and other license numbers. You may not post information such as other people's passwords, usernames, phone numbers, addresses and e-mail addresses unless already publicly accessible on the Web.
Hate Content. Hate speech and other objectionable content may be flagged for review by our users. When this happens, Blogger reserves the right to warn others of the potentially offensive content through the use of a warning page. Other content, such as adult material, may be depublicized so that it does not appear in frequently-trafficked places such as the homepage of Blogger.com.
Just because a given blog has received votes through this mechanism does not mean that any particular action will be taken. For example, blogs that are flagged because readers disagree with the political opinions expressed in a blog will not be acted upon.
Please see Blogger Help for more information about our "Flag as Objectionable" feature.
Defamation/Libel. Users should not publish any content that is unlawful, defamatory, and fraudulent. Note that an allegation of defamatory expression, in and of itself, does not establish defamation. The truth or falsehood of a bit of expression is a key element in establishing defamation, and we are not in a position to make that sort of fact-based judgment. That said, if we have reason to believe that a particular statement is defamatory (a court order, for example), we will remove that statement.
Disruptions and Exploits. We will terminate accounts and block addresses of those who attempt unauthorized use of both blogger.com and blogspot.com.
Copyright. Using copyrighted material does not constitute infringement in all cases. In general, however, users should be careful when using copyrighted content without the permission of those who created it.
It is our policy to respond to notices of alleged infringement that comply with the Digital Millennium Copyright Act ("DMCA"). If we remove a blog/post or disable access to a blog to comply with the DMCA, we will make a good-faith attempt to contact the owner or administrator of each affected site so that they may make a counter notification pursuant to section 512(g)(2) and (3) of the DMCA. It is our policy to document all notices of alleged infringement on which we act. A copy of the notice, with any personally identifying information removed, will be sent to a third party who will make it available to the public.
More information about our copyright procedures can be found here.
Commercial Pornography. We do not permit the hosting of sites that exist for the primary purpose of garnering commercial traffic through pornography. Such sites tend to take up a disproportionate amount of resources. In order to maintain a free and open service for the majority of our users, we choose to forbid commercial pornography on Blog*Spot.
Flooding a blog from one IP address with the same articles or unrelated articles can be considered a form of SPAM. SPAM on blogs is clearly against TOS rules.
It is easy to prove and assert SPAM when multiple messages are coming from one IP address as they are over and over.
We could assert that the offender is trying to increase google page rank for publicity purposes which makes sense in this case. Or we could assert that the offender is using SPAM to reduce free speech. Either of one these violate TOS rules and will be reported.
Also note this TOS rule which has already been broken on this blog: "
Users may not post other people's personally identifying or confidential information, including but not limited to credit card numbers, Social Security Numbers, and driver's and other license numbers. You may not post information such as other people's passwords, usernames, phone numbers, addresses and e-mail addresses unless already publicly accessible on the Web."
Therefore, if you identify a person by an article or website when their NAME is not officially linked to that website OR TO THIS BLOG, this is a violation of TOS rules. Someone posted a website of someone without their permission and linked their name to it on this blog. Posting an article about someone not on this blog (like posting LindZs webpage) is also a violation of TOS. If they had used their full name, the offending IP address could have been prosecuted. Nanc has posted several names. She is only guessing which users said what. She has broken TOS rules and could be prosecuted for using and identifying names of people that are not readily available on the internet. These could be peoples user names and this clearly violates TOS. It doesn't matter if she "thinks" they said something or didn't say certain things, her assertions are not based on fact. She doesn't have access to IP addresses so she doesn't really know and she has violated the terms but not in a way that is easy to prosecute. But her IP address will be reported if I see more names or web addresses being posted.
Please note that these violations are considered federal offenses and are taken very seriously by courts these days. SPAM in particular is a hot topic on the legislative floor.
From what I have seen on this blog,and I have looked, nothing has been done to Howie Nowie that violates the TOS. Stating pure opinions about someone, personal stories orare not considered defamation or libel if it is your opinion and you deem it to be the truth based on your experiences. His name is readily available on the web in numerous locations so the title of this blog also does not break TOS rules nor does mentioning his name. You cannot mention his exact birthdate, user name, etc. For example someone mentioned his user name on match.com. This is a TOS violation but not one that would be considered seriously. If it was his ATM number, it would be.
The names rule is not easy to report and prosecute but the SPAMMING the blog is. I will report the IP address of individuals who SPAM the blog as an attempt to control free speech or google page rankings for publicity purposes.
Again, I remind all blog users that SPAM is clearly against the google terms of service.
hey nanc, a couple of us are asking you about how you'd feel as a parent under this situation ...
nanc, if you had a daughter, say, 19. would you be concerned if a 48 year old man hit on her and chatted to her about having her torture animals for his sexual pleasure. an act that could land the young woman in jail for animal cruelty?
might you not try to warn other people. especially if you had direct evidence yourself and were not relying on heresay.
If it was front page headlines in your local would you care more? A young woman landing herself in jail is a tragedy. what if you thought you had some power to prevent that from happening. would you feel differently if it wasn't your boyfriend who was the abuser?
Nanc has misdirected anger. She is psychologically unprepared to accept that her new love might be really have done a lot of these things. But he has. These aren't made up things. The blog would not exist if they werent true. Some exaggeration maybe but all. Nanc can only live in her tiny made up fantasy world for so long and it is breaking down.
She also is making the blog about her when it isnt. Note her recent comment about everyone trying to play with her mind. Not so, Nanc!
The blog is not about you and never was about you.
Nanc is attacking a lot of people without knowing the real truth.
Nanc is unwilling to accept with the fact that maybe she made another bad choice when it came to a new man. She is afraid and that is why she is acting out on the blog. She certainly is not protecting her man on this blog. He looks more worse than ever now.
She certainly is not going to make new friends in town with this approach either.
Her anger is misdirected.
That says a lot gals!
Nanc signed her name nanc so I can say it here..
Retirement party set for Aug. 6 for Tom Millham
July 18, 2007
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A retirement party for South Lake Tahoe Post Office Senior Clerk Tom Millham will be on Monday, Aug. 6, at Horizon Casino Resort convention center from 5:30 to 8:30 p.m.
Join Tom as he calls it quits after 22 years with the United States Postal Service. Tom and wife, Cheryl, operate the Lake Tahoe Wildlife Care, which takes in and cares for sick, injured and abandoned wildlife.
Admission for the party is $20 and a cash bar is available. Appetizers and wine will be served. Advanced reservations are required. Reservations must be received by Wednesday, Aug. 1 at 2 p.m. Call (530) 577-2273 or e-mail cheryl@ltwc.org.
A roast will commence at 6:30 p.m. Emcees will be Howie Nave and Paul Middlebrook. After all the costs are met the money will be directed to Lake Tahoe Wildlife Care.
If you can't make it to the retirement party, you may want to send Tom your best wishes at an open house at the wildlife center, 1485 Cherry Hills, on Sunday, Aug. 5, from 10 a.m. to 4 p.m.
i never made this blog about me. I have posted MY EXPERIENCES in dating Howie, which are truthful and mine. Of course I'm angry at some of this stuff and angry that people DO make up differnt postings with a lot of false information so finding the truth is extremely illusive.
How would YOU feel if you KNEW your daughter continued to call, email, text message, and whatever to a man Howie's age; pretending to be a fan or friend but behaving opposite later? and by the way, Lindsay already identified herself very early on as minniemouse postings and her friend(s) posted it was her who started this - that didn't come from me. One of her friends has called Howie and told him a bunch of things about her and her obsession about him anyway. so, stop STOP blaming me for everythign you don't like posted. Someone else, early on, went after her for going for "an older guy," not me.
I called Google this morning and was put in touch with someone who said, "Official IP Tracker" would have to work for google or have access to google's information , which is violation of their privacy and corporate rule and such so they will be looking into that because the whole thing (this site) is just wrong. If we're going to have rules, everyone should follow them, that seems fair to me.
Why am I on here - because you went way over the top. to make fun and belittle him for how well he performs sexually, how he kisses or not, how well he dates along with all the other stuff? way over the top
so ask yourselves, How would you like it if someone posted how well you could perform sexxually - maybe rated your performance or rated your kissing, or talked about how you failed them or whatver. you know....
i never made this blog about me. I have posted MY EXPERIENCES in dating Howie, which are truthful and mine. Of course I'm angry at some of this stuff and angry that people DO make up differnt postings with a lot of false information so finding the truth is extremely illusive.
How would YOU feel if you KNEW your daughter continued to call, email, text message, and whatever to a man Howie's age; pretending to be a fan or friend but behaving opposite later? and by the way, Lindsay already identified herself very early on as minniemouse postings and her friend(s) posted it was her who started this - that didn't come from me. One of her friends has called Howie and told him a bunch of things about her and her obsession about him anyway. so, stop STOP blaming me for everythign you don't like posted. Someone else, early on, went after her for going for "an older guy," not me.
I called Google this morning and was put in touch with someone who said, "Official IP Tracker" would have to work for google or have access to google's information , which is violation of their privacy and corporate rule and such so they will be looking into that because the whole thing (this site) is just wrong. If we're going to have rules, everyone should follow them, that seems fair to me.
Why am I on here - because you went way over the top. to make fun and belittle him for how well he performs sexually, how he kisses or not, how well he dates along with all the other stuff? way over the top
so ask yourselves, How would you like it if someone posted how well you could perform sexxually - maybe rated your performance or rated your kissing, or talked about how you failed them or whatver. you know....
It seems clear the intent of a one or more persons is to get revenge at the expense of anyone else now, which isn't right. I can't speak for anyone else, but I do accept responsibility for saything some things I should not have If anyone doesn't have heart, it's the person who will allow our names to stay on this site just to get at Howard (that's his real name), enough already.
OMG my heart is BREAKING whoever posted the name of the person retireing, I know those people ! they are the most kind loving caring god-fearing wonderful people on the PLANET - how dare you put personal information about them on here, names, phone number email address? PLEASE take that down, what kind of person are you ? Those people have nothing to do with this, so what they hired the guy for some event?
The last person was right, DO YOU SEE innocent and kind people are being hurt for nothing.
IP Tracker person, tell us who that was and call your people at google, please take that down those people are the nicest people in the world. SHAME ON YOU
Google's rules say,"
"
Users may not post other people's personally identifying or confidential information, including but not limited to credit card numbers, Social Security Numbers, and driver's and other license numbers. You may not post information such as other people's passwords, usernames, phone numbers, addresses and e-mail addresses unless already publicly accessible on the Web."
Therefore, if you identify a person by an article or website when their NAME is not officially linked to that website OR TO THIS BLOG, this is a violation of TOS rules."
SHAME ON YOU - your desire for revenge at the expense of completely unassociated persons is wrong. Unfortunately posting "anonymously" means you probably can't take the post down, now the only way to protect those innocent people is for minniemouse to take this down or if there is way for her to erase that entry or Google to step in.
Maybe howie should have turned that retirement roast job down. conflict of interest you know.
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